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  #1   IP: 67.78.241.34
Old 01-05-2012, 05:58 PM
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Talking 2012 Return Run to the Vineyard

This is the continuation of the "2011 Coastal Run to Florida" thread. It will feature preparations and corrections made based on lessons learned while southbound. The fuel issue is already being addressed. Two fuel pumps plumbed in parallel with individual shut-off valves and polishing filters have been installed. Actually all I did was put my spare "on line". In addition a second separator/filter will be installed near the portable tank. Pictures will be forthcoming. The alternator is in the shop for a new diode trio. A second (Motorola) has had it's internal regulator removed and the unit is now installed temporarily. It uses the same regulator as the Balmar but has no stator terminal and I will find out if this is a problem. Another planned project is a means of checking voltage throughout the system with a rotary switch at the voltmeter.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:44 PM
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Staying tuned for the updates...!
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  #3   IP: 67.78.241.34
Old 01-06-2012, 09:38 AM
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Talking Motorola 35 on line

Having gutted the regulator of the Motorola 35 I returned it to the unit to simply cover the "insides" and conduct the new lead directly to the field terminal. The Transpo V1500 regulator seems to be handling the back up well even without a stator connection. However, I discovered significant variances at different points in the system. Most importantly, the alternator reading 14.5 V at the output terminal only yields 14.2 V at the main bus bar and 13.2 at coil + (granted I have the fuel pump and raw water pump on the same circuit). The now vacated terminal that used to carry the red wire from the built in regulator now shows 15 V+. I suspect this is because it is "deadended", unlike the output terminal. All this makes it clear to me that voltage in the dynamic system is anything but constant and I do not think that wire and connection resistances account for much of these variances, but rather "bleed off" thru various appliances. The same discussion holds for oil pressure.

Last edited by hanleyclifford; 04-20-2014 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:34 AM
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Finally learned this new (to me) computer and ready (I hope) to test upload/resize function. 2:1 alternator drive restored; note old Motorola standing in for wounded Balmar.

Last edited by hanleyclifford; 07-13-2016 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:40 AM
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Hanley, looking good!
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  #6   IP: 67.78.241.34
Old 01-09-2012, 11:58 AM
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Oops! Forgot picture of instructor.

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Old 01-09-2012, 02:48 PM
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Good Times, Hanley. Too bad it was such a short visit getting to see your boat that we did most of the yapping with flashlights in the dark!

Look forward to your return trip, especially with the updated idea you got from Dave Neptune in the other thread - re: better fuel filtration.
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:52 PM
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:19 AM
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Balmar 712 now back on station after getting new diode rectifier. It turns out that the Balmar is very much like an Hitachi. Also, here is a plug for the good folks at Lenz Auto Electric in Titusville. Good workmanship at fair prices.

Last edited by hanleyclifford; 07-13-2016 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:00 AM
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Question ?

Hey Hanley, are you replacing your "filters"? I just was thinking about how much trouble some have with fuel this morning and then I thought of my Racor. I installed it 8 years ago (in March) and realized it is still the original filter cartridge . I have changed my "before the carb" unit twice only because I change fuel lines. I do suck the KRAP out of the bottom of my tank every few years or so though. And I only buy my regular gas at a major gas station and carry down to the boat, I've just heard to many horror stories regarding marina gas.
Food for thought.

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Old 01-13-2012, 11:06 AM
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Dave - Have not changed the filters yet but that is in the works. Neil with his diagram has got me all motivated for a complete replumb of my fuel system. I have positively had enough of this fuel problem. I'll be posting on this matter soon.
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:13 AM
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Hanley,

If you don't have an extra return port available on the tank we have a simple solution. Let me know if this is the case.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:14 PM
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The plan at this time is to use the tank with the highest "head" on the engine as the constant supply tank. Conveniently, this tank also has an old fashioned dip stick gauge which will be cobbled into a return port. After investigating some prices I have scaled back my plan to the more simple approach suggested by Neil. A diverter valve will be installed just before the carb but downstream of the polishing filter (7-10 micron). The other two tanks will become "satellite" tanks for the original. I will post a diagram soon.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:32 PM
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Hello Afourians. Comments appreciated on the picture attached. Please note: this is not a fuel polishing system. This is a...device, fuel, pressure regulating, recirculating, 1 ea.

Last edited by hanleyclifford; 07-13-2016 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:20 PM
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Almost forgot - the cobble job de resistance:

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Old 01-20-2012, 02:24 PM
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Talking Can you refine crude oil with it?

Hanley,
I have a lot of respect for your innovations, but that looks a little.. um.. well, hazardous. Is it just a mock up?
I'd be afraid of vibrations rattling it 'til something cracked. Maybe truss it up like your exhaust?

Don't come north yet, it's -35F. up here.
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lat 64 View Post
Hanley,
I have a lot of respect for your innovations, but that looks a little.. um.. well, hazardous. Is it just a mock up?
I'd be afraid of vibrations rattling it 'til something cracked. Maybe truss it up like your exhaust?

Don't come north yet, it's -35F. up here.
Thanks Russ. Yes, it could be a little shaky and a threaded rod style support is planned. The unit which includes the clear filters ahead of the pumps is well balanced and the two pump brackets are thru bolted to the cockpit deck support. But it never hurts to be super careful...and I will avoid your neighborhood until you get into the positive degree figures!
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:42 PM
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Hanley,

Nice initiative, as always.

I think that the way the return is plumbed, the same fuel will just recirculating the loop over and over, with the small amount used by the A4 being made up from the tank.

What you really want is a second return port into the tank, preferably as distant from the pickup as possible. That way, the pump's considerable volume capability will be put to use refiltering as much fuel as possible.

It seems you'll also need some sort of pressure relief valve in the return line. Otherwise you'll kill the pressure delivery to the carb.

Keep up the good work!
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:59 PM
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Thanks Ed. The picture of the red tank shows the vent has been turned into a vent/fuel return - note that the vent side is elevated so the returning fuel drops into the hole instead of going out the vent. Testing at the dock with the return valve wide open showed no problem on the return capacity, and enough fuel getting into the carb. Of course, testing underway at full cruising rpm will be more definitive. Not seen in the picture is another "polishing" filter in the return line so the fuel is going to be polished 'round and 'round.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
Thanks Ed. The picture of the red tank shows the vent has been turned into a vent/fuel return
Aha. I didn't catch that that was the vent line. Thought it was the fuel pickup. Now it makes more sense!


Quote:
Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
Testing at the dock with the return valve wide open showed no problem on the return capacity, and enough fuel getting into the carb. Of course, testing underway at full cruising rpm will be more definitive. Not seen in the picture is another "polishing" filter in the return line so the fuel is going to be polished 'round and 'round.
So essentially, you're using the valve, and the additional filter, as a restrictor in the return line to insure adequate pressure to the carb. Simple, and probably more reliable than a pressure relief valve. Hope it works a full throttle. Keep us posted.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:16 PM
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Hanley,

Is that teflon tape on the threads?
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:06 PM
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Hanley,

Is that teflon tape on the threads?
Yes, except the 3/8" NPT T-fitting at the vent which has Permatex 2.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:19 PM
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Hanley,

FWIW, some of the experts recommend against Teflon tape on gasoline fuel systems...even the stuff supposedly rated for gasoline. Here's a link from our friends at Jamestown Disributors: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...and+Fuel+Lines

YMMV.
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomG View Post
Hanley,

FWIW, some of the experts recommend against Teflon tape on gasoline fuel systems...even the stuff supposedly rated for gasoline. Here's a link from our friends at Jamestown Disributors: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...and+Fuel+Lines

YMMV.
Tom - Thanks for that and the link. The subject of teflon tape has come up here from time to time. I can only say that I have used it for over twenty years (the cheap white stuff, not even the "approved" yellow stuff) without incident. I may be getting away with it due to the low pressure of our systems or the fact that I am very careful not to allow tape into the passages or that I always thoroughly clean or replace fittings. I never double clamp but always use all-stainless clamps. There may be other considerations and I invite further comment. Regards, Hanley
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:22 AM
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Hanley, I pretty much figured you were dialed in, but I also remembered you having some peculiar carburetor/fuel contamination issues on the trip down that forced you to tear down the carb a few times. I didn't know if the teflon tape was associated with your fuel issues or not. Teflon tape is real "no-no" on airplanes, so perhaps that's where my bias comes from. It's good hear you've been successful with it.

Did you ever figure out what was causing your fuel problems?
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