#26
IP: 174.88.14.29
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PCV KIt
I recently installed the kit on my 1979 Atomic 4 in my C&C 30. I installed the spacer plate and the PCV hose. The kit alos came with new fuel fittings and a black rubber fuel hose. I dod not install this as I have a copper hose between my fuel pump and carb. This still fit . Should I have installed the new fittings and hose to increase fuel draw or will the fuel system work still with the larger spacer plate in there?
Thanls Joe
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Joseph Bognar 1979 C&C 30 Mk1 |
#27
IP: 76.241.24.32
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The PCV Kit (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) creates just what it says. It is sucking the blow by through the intake. I think you need to have a vented oil cap to let the pvc kit do its job. I have the indigo pcv kit and a vented oil cap and no more blow by smell.
dvd |
#28
IP: 174.88.14.29
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PCV Kit
My kit did not come with a new oil cap. It vents directly in to the side case where the original hose was and directly in to the carb.
Joe
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Joseph Bognar 1979 C&C 30 Mk1 |
#29
IP: 68.126.199.192
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This is not to say I know what the problem is guys.
When I got Geronimo, she smelled. I could smell mussed, and engine fumes. I think the dirty mussed smell was was from being shut up, and stuff left to rust, and rot in lockers. About six months after I got her is I found the gas leak around the bottom of my FG fuel tank, which was under the starboard quarter berth. I aired her out about three times a week. (all hatches open.) Removed all the roted, and rusted stuff. Changed my tank, and relocated it under the cockpit seat at the transom. I have no smells. The little bulkhead between the cabin, and engine compartment I have had off for several months due to work on the engine. I run the engine every 2-3 days for 30 minutes. I still have no smells inside the boat. My oil cap fits tight. No smell from there. During the summer I took the covers off all the beding, seats, dried and aired them on deck...no smell there. I cleaned the FG liner top to bottom with oxiclean. My boat smells like a pretty women should. The only part I can not clean keel under the liner. God only knows what is under there. |
#30
IP: 199.173.226.236
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My "new" engine has no blowby at all I can detect in the cabin. I am running the Indigo PCV kit. Keep in mind there is no front seal. If there is sufficient blowby it will be coming out there perhaps and definitely through the oil cap. Running a hose from the oil fill to a blower might do the trick
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#31
IP: 96.233.116.164
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Quote:
Mark |
#32
IP: 199.173.226.236
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The A4 is NOT airtight, vented cap or no.
Try putting one with the oil still in it into your wife's Accord and let the front end get lower than the back and you too will be scrubbing oil out of the car |
#33
IP: 148.170.241.1
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joe db has it right - the Atomic 4 is NOT an airtight engine, period.
The fed standards for automotive engines do not apply to our old friend, the A4. So whether or not the feds banned vented oil caps doesn't matter. First, as has been pointed out above, the front end of the crankcase is not sealed. If you tip the engine forward a few degrees, with a crankcase full of oil, you will find oil dribbling out from behind the flywheel and running all over your shoes. Second, the stock oil cap on the filler tube on the front of the engine (on the newer-style engines) does not make an air-tight seal on the filler tube. The reason the PCV valve kit works better than the stock arrangement is because it takes advantage of the point of high vacuum within the intake plenum. The spacer plate allows you to take advantage of the Venturi effect right behind the carb. This creates a stronger "suction" effect than just pointing the little stock rubber hose towards the flame arrester. This direct connection causes the crankcase fumes to get sucked through the PCV valve and into the intake plenum and re-breathed, rather than getting pumped out the front of the crankcase, or the oil fill cap, or out the vent tube on the side, where they might or might not actually get sucked back into the carb.
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- Bill T. - Richmond, VA Relentless pursuer of lost causes |
#34
IP: 148.170.241.1
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Are you referring to the MMI kit, or the Indigo kit?
I installed the Indigo kit, and it did not come with any new fuel fittings, so I'm curious as to the differences.
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- Bill T. - Richmond, VA Relentless pursuer of lost causes |
#35
IP: 199.173.226.236
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BTW - if you have an old Indigo kit with a horizontal PCV valve it will not work. You need the new fitting with a vertical valve.
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#36
IP: 96.233.116.164
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I only meant that the vented cap isn't necessary. Poorly expressed, no doubt.
Mark |
#37
IP: 69.225.231.158
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I installed the Indigo PCV kit and completely eliminated the blow by smell. I think it is for any engine, new or old.
DVD |
#38
IP: 24.152.131.220
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Just One Sailor's Opinion (JOSO, remember?) but I view the PCV kit a stopgap measure, albeit a potentially long term one, to mitigate a specific symptom of internal engine wear.
I do not mean to suggest it should not be used. Who wants a stinky boat? Maybe those diesel guys can get used to it but not us, right? But recognize the presence of blowby is for a reason and the more blowby you have, the more serious the reason.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#39
IP: 75.157.247.99
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installing Indigo PCV question
Hey All,
I will be installing the Indigo PCV to my recently purchased rebuilt A4 soon. My old A4 has a short copper pipe coming out of the block just behind the flywheel cover. The Indigo clamps onto that nicely. My new A4 has no such pipe: just a smooth hole. The PCV slips into the block pretty snugly, but can't be clamped in any way. Wondering if I should attach a pipe (how? JB Weld? tap?) or is there a way to glue that hose in so that it is still removable for replacement? Or is a fairly snug pressure fit enough? Thanks! Marty
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#40
IP: 173.66.243.217
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Marty, Looks like you have an early model plate. Copper pipe section works best, drill out to match your plate and secure with a long cotter pin.
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#41
IP: 108.23.219.10
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Venting a must!
Keelcooler, you are lucky that the A-4 is still vented. It is not a good idea to plug or seal the crankcase as explosive gasses can accumilate. I have seen the pans of Hi-performance and duty engines literally blow the pan off of the engine when ventilation was eliminated.
In the case of the A-4 even by plugging the oil fill it is vented to the carb through the side plate vent and any extra fumes will still go out through the open crank on the flywheel end. The PVC still requires that fresh air be allowed into the engine so it mixes and is extracted by the PCV system. Just an FYI. Dave Neptune |
#42
IP: 75.157.247.99
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confusion?
Hey Neptune,
I thought Keel meant for me to insert a copper pipe snugly into the vent hole, pin it with a cotter pin, and hose clamp the PCV valve to the other end of the pipe. Does that seem like a good plan to you? Totally agree with your warning: I would never plug the vent hole. If the pipe insertion plan is a viable way to go, wondering if I should put a sealant around the pipe....and what type? Just noticed your handle is "Neptune". Our Tartan 27 is "Poseidon"....(Neptune was the Roman version of the Greek god Poseidon, as you probably know...). Thanks, Marty
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#43
IP: 64.91.114.110
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Cabin fumes
I installed the indigo system and fixed some gas related leak issues and lo and behold no smells of any kind at least from the engine.
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#44
IP: 173.66.243.217
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Marty, That's right you should find a cotter pin hole at 12 o'clock. The early vent hoses were metal flex and attached in this manner.
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#45
IP: 108.23.219.10
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Hmmm
Marty, I'm not exactly sure what the pin is for unless to hold in position. I too have the Indigo and I just attached a bit of hose to both ends of the copper elbow one to the block and the other to the valve and clamped them, so far they have held fine. I don't want any vacuum getting by the valve not sucking on the crankcase itself. I think he is referng to the early type and I would fasten it with the pin if you have access or you could clean it well and put together with some JB Weld or even orange RTV.
Yeh it's Neptune and I have gotten a bit of milage and a few dinners from people betting it wasn't really my name. Jim, my point was that unless you have air coming in you won't displace enough to get the accumilating gasses out and that can be explosive. I have seen pans and valve cover blown clear off an engine. Ever see the straps on a blower motor at a track? I was part af a blown alchohol car crew a few times and once at the old Irwindale raceway the car we were going against had a cranckase explosion and fake straps. Te blower went clear over the stands and landed abot 200 feet away, that was a 8-71 with most of the manifold attached. They were in deep doo doo and were suspended from competition for a while. When it went it scared the ~~~~out of me for sure. The track officials went nuts, and thanked their lucky stars it didn't land in the stands or on someone in the parking lot, however it did do a number on a cars trunk and rear window. Dave Neptune |
#46
IP: 75.157.247.99
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sounds like a plan
Thanks for the clarification. I'll glue the pipe in with JB weld and attach the Indigo as it was in our old A4. Worked great there: cut fumes by 90%.
This rebuilt I bought is quite a hodge podge. Early 60's transmission, late 70's block, new MM head and manifold, and this prehistoric vent (not sure what that plate is called). Came with the sheet metal flywheel cover, which is a different bolt pattern than our cast iron flywheel on the old A4. Is there a cast iron one that would fit? I'm just not warming up to the sheet metal version: seems flimsy. Thanks all, Marty
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#47
IP: 173.66.243.217
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The early valve spring panel cover plates were cast and are preferred because they did not warp and leak. If you look close at Marty’s photo you can see the cotter pin attachment hole.
We should not confuse Dave further and tell him about the oil main going to the plate. That’s right the early models had a valve spring oil shower! You can plug that main pressure line and not blow out your pan or launch your blower into the bridge deck. The cast iron fly wheel covers will not fit the sheet metal fronts. |
#48
IP: 108.67.214.15
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Quote:
thanks in advance! Tim rebuilt A4 lovingly cradled inside the belly of a 77 Columbia 8.7 |
#49
IP: 24.224.206.117
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Check timing.
Check timing???
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. |
#50
IP: 75.207.34.99
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Keelstep , Thanks for listing the replacement part numbers for the PCV
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