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  #1   IP: 96.76.48.110
Old 02-15-2022, 02:52 PM
JuniorAtomic JuniorAtomic is offline
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Soot in thermostat/cooling system

Hello all,

I followed the advise of couple fellow members and opened up a new thread on the soot in thermostat/cooling system per pics attached (now showing cylinders after we've taken the side panel off and see some more soot there or it can even be rust?)
Reasoning says there should probably only be clear water in the cooling system maybe with some salt build ups if there are no leaks, sips, cracks in the block or the manifold.

As I'm new to engines I'm not sure if the soot can be considered normal after few years of operation or should we still expect 0 soot and only clear water in the raw sea water cooling system?
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  #2   IP: 162.245.50.230
Old 02-15-2022, 03:17 PM
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Looks like a probable leaking head gasket or worst case a cylinder itself leaking from rusting through. Not many other ways for exhaust and a bit of oil to get in. Oil can get in in a few places but the soot is from combustion gasses.

Dave Neptune
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Old 02-16-2022, 08:20 AM
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depends also if the system was really fully cleaned before going to FWC... if the switch was done with an imperfect clean, I would not be surprised to see some of the crap/goo being re-circulated with cooling fluid, and depositing everywhere...
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Old 02-20-2022, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
Looks like a probable leaking head gasket or worst case a cylinder itself leaking from rusting through. Not many other ways for exhaust and a bit of oil to get in. Oil can get in in a few places but the soot is from combustion gasses.

Dave Neptune
I think I may have found where the combustion gasses enter the system. It's not conclusive yet but most probable according to what I've discovered so far
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Old 02-20-2022, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
depends also if the system was really fully cleaned before going to FWC... if the switch was done with an imperfect clean, I would not be surprised to see some of the crap/goo being re-circulated with cooling fluid, and depositing everywhere...
Thank you for your reply. My system is raw sea water cooled.
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Old 02-20-2022, 10:06 PM
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Cracks? Cold weld?

A picture is worth a thousand words!
I've attached where I think the problem is. I think the past owners used some form of cold weld/epoxy to cover the cracks in the block (those are cracks, right?)
The first and last pictures show a pile of goo at the bottom of the valves which is probably due to the water/gases sipping thru and rusting?
I haven't scraped off the the first exhaust/intake passage under cyl 1 deep enough so I don't know yet if there's a way for water and combustion gasses to mix but probably it's there somewhere.

Do you guys think I should attempt to use cold weld/epoxy like the POs did to "fix" this problem? Is there another way to make this engine alive again?

Any comments and/or feedback is highly appreciated.
This forum is such a gem. Glad I found it!
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Old 02-21-2022, 07:09 AM
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To my eye, those cracks look like freeze damage.
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Old 02-21-2022, 08:17 AM
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No, you can see how well the epoxy worked. It is usually used to "temporarily patch" at best and mostly to sell it.

There are welding techniques that can often "fix" the problem. The process is called stich welding. There have been a few threads here on the forum regarding the process. And it still depends how and where the rest of the cracks are as freeze damage as Edward mentioned causes cracks where ever the water is trapped and can't expand without cracking the block in those areas.

Clean it off good and take it to a shop capable of "stich welding" and have them take a good look by magnafluxing the block. That will show all of the cracks so an estimate can be done. Often a good block can be found cheaper or even a mostly complete used A-4.

Dave Neptune
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Old 02-21-2022, 10:27 AM
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is that just the way the bolts cleaned the threads when taken out, or is that en helicoil I can see?

An helicoil would be a sign of further wear and tear of the block, in line with the different cracks / repairs...
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:33 PM
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Yeah, I noticed that heli-coil too. For some reason, I suspect the crack was there before the heli-coil.
I'd recommend a good magna-flux or dye penetrant check before going much further with that block.
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  #11   IP: 96.76.48.110
Old 03-02-2022, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by edwardc View Post
To my eye, those cracks look like freeze damage.
Thanks for your reply. They probably are. One of the studs with a crack next to it was loose
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Old 03-02-2022, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
No, you can see how well the epoxy worked. It is usually used to "temporarily patch" at best and mostly to sell it.

There are welding techniques that can often "fix" the problem. The process is called stich welding. There have been a few threads here on the forum regarding the process. And it still depends how and where the rest of the cracks are as freeze damage as Edward mentioned causes cracks where ever the water is trapped and can't expand without cracking the block in those areas.

Clean it off good and take it to a shop capable of "stich welding" and have them take a good look by magnafluxing the block. That will show all of the cracks so an estimate can be done. Often a good block can be found cheaper or even a mostly complete used A-4.

Dave Neptune
Thanks for the info which matches my thought process.
I didn't bother with magnafluxing, rather I checked local Craigslist and found a newer A4 which I managed to get for free since all the guy wanted was for someone to pull it off his boat This newer block is intact and looks to be crack-free. I've taken it apart and and cleaning the valves from build ups.
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Old 03-02-2022, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
is that just the way the bolts cleaned the threads when taken out, or is that en helicoil I can see?

An helicoil would be a sign of further wear and tear of the block, in line with the different cracks / repairs...
I cannot confirm it's helicoil. The threads and studs don't look like having anything on them but yellow rust residue. Overall they don't look good. One stud above the area where the cracks are is corroded at the bottom where it screws to the the block probably by 2-3mm. I couldn't even get the WD40 to penetrate down the thread.
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Old 03-02-2022, 06:33 PM
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Good find Jr!

Send us some pics of the new engine. The nice thing is if your A4 is toast, at least you can get a few bucks at metal salvage for it since it is heavy!
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Old 03-13-2022, 01:46 AM
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Good find Jr!

Send us some pics of the new engine. The nice thing is if your A4 is toast, at least you can get a few bucks at metal salvage for it since it is heavy!
Thank you Sir. I will post some pics later as I only have time to work on this project on every other weekend so it's progressing slow
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Old 03-13-2022, 09:21 PM
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JrA...Roger that. see your posts in the other thread..same motor? I might be confused.
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Old 03-15-2022, 07:13 PM
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JrA...Roger that. see your posts in the other thread..same motor? I might be confused.
No, that motor is the newer A4 from 1976. The block looks to be in good shape but the valve seats didn't look good. In fact I recall there was no compression at all when I tested it on the boat. Could be because it sat for a year and there was no oil in the cylinders and/or because valves seats were ugly or both.

I'm not able to find the seat cutter for rent in my town so will probably have to order online!
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