Water in crankcase - bilge flooded part way up engine

[cvile1617]

Apparently bilge pump failed over winter (yes battery bank was intact and charged) and caused bilge to flood about to level just below the carb (late model engine). All oil in crankcase was replaced with water. First question is where would water get in since oil stick is at top of engine. Engine lays just about level flat and has no slant. Oh the boat is in the hard for the winter. Cover of tranny intact and water did not reach that height. Took off flame arrester and no sign of water with a few drops of oil at the oil ring. Have not removed Zenith to see if water in the bowl. When I checked oil level was about 2 inches above full on the stick but oil looked good and when I pulled the stick no sign of water. Next I took hand oil pump and inserted suction line in the oil fill at front of engine down Into the crank case and with first pull of pump was water. Pumped until sucking air and all I got was water. Checked tranny and no oil or water.

So how did water get in and then where would the oil have been pushed out of engine since oil floats??? I am assuming that what is left in the crankcase is the oil that I saw in the tranny that is now in the sump of the crank case.

Have not turned over engine, checked plugs and no sign of water, engine was fully drained, installed RV antifreeze, via T-Stat until it flowed from the drain ports around engine, left t-stat cover loose over the winter. No excess oil in t-stat recess just the usual stuff.

So is the drive shaft where it exits the tranny not sealed. I am baffled and need the community of big propellers to chime in. I have clicked around the forum but can't see a related post.

So assuming water just seeped in and flooded the crankcase can I remove the last vestige of bulk water, replace with oil and fire the engine up, then do multiple oil changes until clear (not milky). OR am I in the market to rebuild. Not the answer I want but it is what it is.

Thanks to all her have read this long post. Boat is a 1964 Columbia C40 with a rebuilt A4 about 10 years ago. Ran greAt with no oil or overheating issues so good bones.

Phil

[Dave Neptune]

Ouch!

Tough break! If the water level got as high as the bottom of the crank it would just run in. There is no seal at that end.

Dave Neptune

[BunnyPlanet169]

To clarify Dave's response, there is no seal on the flywheel end of the crank. If you take the flywheel off, you'll find an oil-slinger flange, and a great gaping hole into the block. The front bearing journal nuts and cap are right there.

Did you say you were 'on the hard' as on the ground, or 'in the hard' as in the ice? I've had water issues on the hard, and adding a 'garboard' plug down low in the bilge sump has kept the boat dry during the winter.

And if it's as you say, then yes, you should be able to run and do several oil changes....

[lat 64]

Invest in some good comfortable knee pads.

[ndutton]

Phil,
When you pumped the crankcase and got nuthin' but water was the bilge still full or had it already been de-watered?

[cvile1617]

Great info one and all. Flywheel design explains why the oil ended up in the bilge. I had dewatered the bilge and then dewatered the crankcase. I was on the hard as in the parking lot for the winter.

The Garboard is an Interesting idea but hate to put more holes in the old girl? What style plug did you use Jeff? Did you install one with interior plug or exterior plug?

So any ideas on how to remove the last bit of water before I start the great oil flush or do I just go ahead and start flushing. Could I flush the crankcase with kerosene and let it simply run out on to an oil pig below the flywheel, then start the oil install. How long should I run the engine between flushes?

Thanks for all this great info. And yes I have a really comfortable pair of knee pads, but the back is going to be hating life.

Phil

[Mo]

Caught me off guard as well.

Hi,
It's been a hard winter in the North East. With such a winter there is always risk of water getting into a stored boat. We have some here that were covered, the cover rips, and water gathers in the boat because there is no drain hole drilled in the keel.

A hole drilled in the lowest part of the boat was always the answer here. Remove the plug when the boat comes out of the water and we didn't worry about water....UNTIL this year.

We had 3 episodes of rain, then flash freezes in a row within 9 days...one of those flash freezes left 4 inches of ice on everything, roads, cars, driveways, boat, decks and roofs, the others did the same. We had 6 to 8 inches of ice on the streets despite salting efforts.

"FLASH FREEZE" ...generally starts a snow storm and a foot or more of snow gets on the ground. Changes to freezing rain or rain or alternates back and forth. Winds are high as front moves through and driving rain saturates the snow...as front moves though temp drops well below freezing and the crust of the snow freezes enough in 15 minutes to walk on. The snow under that is still wet and water drains downward...into any cracks or opening in the boat. Another hour or so everything is rock hard. In that hour the amount of water heading to the low areas under the snow is phenomenal.

Last week I went to the boat and found a couple of issues. I have smart chargers aboard but the power supply to them had issues over the winter. I ended up buying two new deep cycle batteries as I won't trust those that I think froze...not even bothering with them. Started the engine...fired up right away. Bought a heater to do some interior work and painting....removed the bilge board...it was then that I noticed ice in the forward part of my bilge...NEVER happened before.
-forward portion under mast-step full and frozen
-bilge pump fully covered and frozen in
-ice back about 18 inches and about 4 inches below floor boards.
-there was rain since the flash freeze that got in there but as luck would have it, it worked it's way down under the ice and drained out the hole.
-should have left the bilge board off...there are sunny days here in winter where the sun beating on a blue hulled boat will raise the interior temp above freezing...If I had had the floor board off it would have melted I'm sure.

Thursday put heater in boat and it melted within hours. Other boats, Rick's and Bill's boats have a plug with smaller diameter opening than mine...Ricks had ice above the floor boards and Bill's just below. STV Tuna had the same but no drain plug. Some owners haven't been down to their boats to check them yet.

I know how mine happened. I had a cockpit drain corroded and ordered two new marelon ones. I have the drain hole so I didn't worry changing them last fall. Figured water draining in would just run on out of the boat...didn't consider a flash freeze.

Learning curve...Garboard plug is the answer but when flash freezes occur one will have to go and check the boat...will keep that in the back of my tiny little mind in the coming winters.

[BunnyPlanet169]

The Garboard is an Interesting idea but hate to put more holes in the old girl? What style plug did you use Jeff? Did you install one with interior plug or exterior plug?
Phil

I used one of these, bedded down in 5200, and bolted through the hull from the outside.

I replaced the plug with a recessed female hex plug. It gets down about flush when installed with Teflon tape, and a lot of torque.

If you're on the hard, then make it a project! With a hole in the bottom, you can fill the bilge like a bathtub with warm water and Simple Green and get everything wet and clean. I even brought a small electric pressure washer onboard the first time....

[cvile1617]

Perfect! I now have a project (like a need another one) before I launch. Now to rig up the engine to run on the hard from hose and bucket so I can flush the oil in the crankcase.

Any trick you have on best way to cool engine during the flush. I was going to simply rig up a hose connection to the inlet side of raw water pump then just let the exhaust simply hit the ground. Running a couple of minutes for each flush.

[The Garbone]

If you have enough hose have the water dump back in the bucket, it takes a few minutes for the motor to hear up 5 gallons of water. Of course if you have a hose available you could just keep topping off the bucket as the motor runs and not have to worry about disposing of the hot water.

[Mo]

Here's what I used (bronze and can be had from professional plumbing suppliers.

- Drill the hole same size as outer diameter
- Mix some epoxy...With epoxy seal the fiberglass that was just drilled. It is important so seal the fiberglass as fiberglass absorbs moisure... water may eventually be in the bilge.
- Then put a socket on the end of it and screwed it in flush to the hull.
- Then wipe finger around inner aspect to smooth out the epoxy forced in with the insertion....all the while ensuring you cover any fiberglass area that was disturbed by the drill.
- Mix some beads or glass strads for the outer portion and fair it around the outer "hex" which is not counter sunk into the hull.
- Allow it all to dry 24 hrs then insert the plug.

That won't come out even on impact with something going past the keel (submerged floatsome etc)

The below pics are from the first web site that I saw them on...available just about anywhere. The shaft on the reducer part should be about an inch long...once that is threaded in with epoxy, the outer end flared, plug snugged in...it's not going anywhere

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/brass-bronze-threaded-fittings/0439969/

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/brass-bronze-threaded-fittings/2315045/

[Mo]

If you have enough hose have the water dump back in the bucket, it takes a few minutes for the motor to hear up 5 gallons of water. Of course if you have a hose available you could just keep topping off the bucket as the motor runs and not have to worry about disposing of the hot water.

Gary has the right idea...see if you can keep the bucket supplied with water. No problem to use 5 gallons a minute once rpms up a bit...at idle less for sure. I always keep a hose to the bucket until I'm done. If using just a bucket of water keep a very close eye on it. It can be used up quickly if your rev the engine and your impeller may get damaged. Not a good idea to put the garden hose directly to the raw water intake hose...the excess pressure can force water past seals...some get away with it and I'm sure much of it depends on what kind of pressure is on the hose line.

[Antibes]

If you have a knot meter you can unscrew the paddle and works fantastic as a drain.

[Mo]

If you have a knot meter you can unscrew the paddle and works fantastic as a drain.

Absolutely, if it is low in the boat. Mine is about 6 inches higher than the lowest part of my bilge so it may not be an option for everyone.

[Antibes]

If you have a knot meter you can unscrew the paddle and works fantastic as a drain.