Pickled - wet.

[Laker]

Today was the day for putting my A4 to rest for the winter. I ran this procedure past the group on the winterizing thread - twice - and got no response. So now I issue the following report - I did the following :
Step 1 - disconnected raw water intake and hot water discharge hoses at engine ends ; attach winterizing temporary hoses to both.
2- Dunked each temporary hose into a bucket of antifreeze
3- Started and ran coppery shiny A4 until antifreeze got steamy , temperature gauge tickled 200f. , and then - for good measure - clamped the t-stat side of the hose coming from the T-fitting to make darn sure that the good green rust inhibiting non-freezing stuff was circulating throughout the block
4- Cut ignition , disconnected temporary discharge hose and reconnected proper hot water discharge hose leading to standpipe
5- Restarted A4 with intake hose still in bucket of antifreeze , ran the engine while hanging over the stern rail looking for gusher of green discharge which would tell me that my new standpipe is protected from ice and rust
6- Having confirmed green exhaust discharge , ran back below decks and hosed the carb intake with StaBil fogging spray until the engine gagged on oil (note- I could not find a source for MMO spray container ; figured Stabil was reputable)
7- Removed spark plugs and doused each cylinder with an ounce or so of Marvel Mystery Oil ; reset plugs

There you have it ; how did I do?

[edwardc]

Sounds perfect to me. Steps 1 - 3 were exactly what I used to winterize my A4 on the bench before installing it on the boat last December.

[Mark S]

Sorry you got no response - twice. You're good 'til spring.

Mark

[zellerj]

My only concern is running the engine without water going into a fiberglass or plastic muffler. This might not be a concern for you or others, but this method of winterizing may destroy a fiberglass muffler (original on a Catalina 30) or a vetus or cetek muffler. If you have a plastic muffler, beware of disconnecting the engine cooling water outlet hose and running the engine, because the hot exhaust will melt these units. I know this from experience, that is why I now have a vetus waterlift muffler installed on my Catalina 30.


Best,
Jim

[Laker]

Jim Z --- Thanks for the caution , but I have a black iron , recently custom made standpipe. I can understand that hot exhaust could cook a fiberglass waterlift. Makes me wonder why they are built that way - must make the occasional mistake of starting and running without opening the intake thru-hull a very pricey proposition.

To the rest of you folks , thanks for the pickeling endorsements. Now I have to cover up the old boat and make a list of spring projects , which should be a short list after 7 these years of layup and toil - unless one has discovered that the stainless steel water tank which has been unused since I acquired the boat - having activated the water system for the first time recently - leaks like a sieve ! I am betting that some PO allowed water to freeze and split a seam. Not too bad a repair unless the tank is beneath a settee which is glassed into the hull.

I love boats. CJK

[Loki9]

For #6 you don't need a spray oil, I just pour MMO into the flame arrestor.

[jhwelch]

My monel water tank developed a leak after, shall we say, an abrupt stop on something hard. After draining it I stuck a small digital camera in through the access port and took flash photos to figure out what seam had let go.

-jonathan

[Baltimore Sailor]

My only comment is that it sounds like you used regular auto antifreeze: "...hanging over the stern rail looking for gusher of green discharge..."

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to discharge that into the watershed. You should be using the pink RV antifreeze instead of the green stuff. The pink stuff is nontoxic and OK to discharge.

[Laker]

Baltimore ---

A quart or less of antifreeze splatted onto concrete where it will evaporate will harm what , exactly? Not in the hypothetical - in real time. What's going to die? Nothing is the answer , unless an ant was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Give me a break already !

[Mo]

Guys,
I winterize with normal car antifreeze. It's easy to put a hose straight down from the cradle to a bucket when on the cradle. Nothing gets splashed with green antifreeze.

Laker, I believe you are in Wisconsin...you need to be well protected from frost and I wouldn't be leaving it to the RV antifreeze. You did the right thing by winterizing the boat with the auto antifreeze because it gets cold where you are. Good call.

For future reference: I remove the T-stat and draw 10 gallons of fresh water through the engine. Then put 2 quarts of anti-freeze and 2 quarts of water: give a shake to mix. Now you have 4 quarts to play with. Put hose on exhaust port descending down to bucket on the ground. Then draw from the antifreeze through the engine and have someone look at the bucket. After it collects a few splashes of green anti-freeze you are done. Everything is protected in the engine and exhaust and you won't be trouble shooting frost damage in the spring. NOTE: it will not take the whole 4 quarts. For the rest I pump the toilet on "water intake" side of things to draw any water from the intake line. Then switch to "pump dry" and pump anything in there out. Throw in the rest of the antifreeze and pump dry....you won't have issues with the toilet either. So, basically, a gallon of mixed 50/50 antifreeze is enough to protect the engine / exhaust and the toilet and its plumbing. It's amazing how many people have frost damage time after time with this two items.

While I was writing this there were about 100 car wrecks in the US that spilled whole radiator contents on the road. I can only guess how many autos have coolant leaks.

[Laker]

Thanks for the input , Mo. The vast majority of the antifreeze used in my pickling process was captured into the bucket and poured back into the original containers for future use - especially in my rancid old Dodge surf van which , like a lot of old creatures , occasionally leaks. (That was after lubing the head with green stuff.)

Side topic - I doubt that the RV pink stuff has the benefit of rust protection ; am I right or wrong about that?

[sastanley]

Jeff, the only real issue that I am aware of, is cats & dogs are attracted to green antifreeze & like to drink it & it is deadly for them... that is the only real risk, as compared to what the rest of the world dumps into the environment every day.

I'd also be interested to know if the pink stuff helps with rust protection too, since I am still RWC.

[ndutton]

Shawn,

My understanding is the RV stuff does not have the rust inhibitors the green stuff has and over time it develops into a slimy and/or gelatinous mess. At the end of my FWC conversion I had to make this very decision, RV or automotive coolant. I opted for the automotive stuff for the reasons mentioned.

[edwardc]

I talked to one of the commercial ship inspectors who works in Baltimore harbor, and he told me that anti-freeze was not considered a hazardous waste discharge. I always thought it was.

Maybe Bill (I Like Rust) can weigh in on this one, as it's in his area of expertise.

[Baltimore Sailor]

I didn't see where Laker said his boat was on the hard, though I should have assumed so, seeing he's in Wisconsin! I didn't mean to come across as a scold, either, just as a "to consider next time" kind of comment.

I'm also surprised to hear it's not considered a toxic discharge. I always thought it was, given that all the local recycling centers accept it.

I'll stick with the pink stuff myself. It's worked just fine for me in the Maryland climate.

[Laker]

Shawn ,

I considered the mammalian toxicity hazard. There were no dogs in the fenced-in yard at the time of my winterization ; I had seen a stray cat outside the fence a few days prior but not that day. There was no place for the small amt. of discharged green stuff to pool , and it was just a moist spot on the concrete when I left. Pretty small risk exposure.

As to the practice of capturing the discharge at the through-hull with a hose into a bucket , that is a good thing to do but not an option for me for the following reason: the Colombia 34 has a tremendous amount of overhang at the stern (I enjoy swimming underneath the stern and looking up) , and the exhaust thruhull is located a foot or so above the waterline , discharging downward. This arrangement resulted in the exhaust port becoming submerged at times under power , especially if the wind and waves were astern. When the port went occasionally under water the resonance characteristics , and , I assume back pressure changed , resulting in an annoying hull vibration. I did not like that phenomenon at all , so I had a stainless steel scupper sort of a thing fabricated and bonded it to the hull over the ex. port , open at the aft end. That modification is pretty effective in keeping the port surrounded by gas and free of water , virtually eliminating the annoying hull vibration. However , I cannot get at the port with a hose. In lieu of capturing the discharged green stuff I keep the overboard amount to a minimum for reasons of mammalian toxicity AND because that stuff is not cheap. I am.