Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Overhaul

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 75.157.247.99
Old 09-26-2011, 02:24 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Posts: 679
Thanks: 91
Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
Bowen Island Paint Job

Hello,
I just bought a rebuilt A4 to replace our rusting 1967 A4. I want to go over her completely, strip and repaint as it has a poor paint job, and add fresh water cooling. The photo below is an old photo of our old A4...very rusty now, but expect I'll be able to rebuild her as well. Want to get her out of the boat so I can rewire and clean up the engine room.
Millions of questions! To start with I'm trying to figure out what year our new A4 might be. Has a MM head and MM manifold and was rebuilt in 2009 and then run only 4 hours.
Has a sheet metal flywheel cover, oil fill forward, has the little snap open oil fill box just forward of the water pump, has the big Delco distributor with points.

I like the cast iron cover so much better, as well as my old style starter. Could I swap over both....maybe need to swap flywheel as well? I'm out of my depth here, don't know if that is possible or a bad idea.

I put electronic ignition on my old, small Prestolite dist. Can I swap that over to the new A4 as well and replace the Delco?

Any reason not to make these changes (if I can)? Is the bigger style starter better?

Lots to sort out!

Thanks for any advice,
Marty (1967 T 27 Poseidon)
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 09-26-2011, 09:01 AM
hanleyclifford's Avatar
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,987
Thanks: 176
Thanked 285 Times in 228 Posts
Smile

You've got a real "cobble job". New style head, early gearcase cover, late distributor, early starter and (obviously) early flywheel but with late flywheel housing. Somebody went to work. Oil fill forward suggests late block. Starters and flywheels, early and late, go together. If you don't already have one I suggest you get the Moyer Marine Overhaul and Service Manual available on this site.
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 174.65.54.224
Old 09-26-2011, 10:13 AM
jpian0923's Avatar
jpian0923 jpian0923 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 976
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I swapped my big Delco distributor out for the smaller Prestolite with EI over a year ago. It works and I have better alternator belt clearance.
__________________
"Jim"
S/V "Ahoi"
1967 Islander 29
Harbor Island, San Diego
2/7/67 A4 Engine Block date
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 09-26-2011, 10:38 AM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is online now
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 6,986
Thanks: 1,133
Thanked 602 Times in 442 Posts
Marty, the block date is stamped on the block behind the carb & just under the breather hole & valve cover.

Mine is 041976 - which I am pretty sure indicates April 19, 1976. Ignore the pretty 6 digit embossed number nearby.. I think it is some kind of casting number & is the same on lots of blocks.

Here is a dim picture where you can see the casting date just above the flame arrestor.
Attached Images
 
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif

Last edited by sastanley; 09-26-2011 at 10:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 75.157.247.99
Old 09-26-2011, 10:39 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Posts: 679
Thanks: 91
Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
swaps from 1967 to rebuilt

Thank you for your replies. Just to be clear, the photo on post #1 is of my old (now rusty) 1967 A4.
Good to know I can swap distributor.
So, if I want to use my old cast iron flywheel cover I need to also swap:
flywheel
flywheel housing
starter
....is that correct?

...thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 174.65.54.224
Old 09-26-2011, 10:55 AM
jpian0923's Avatar
jpian0923 jpian0923 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 976
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I think bolt pattern is the same for the fly wheel covers. Not sure about starters though, but I suspect they are the same too.

Can you Put the two engines in the same room and check?
__________________
"Jim"
S/V "Ahoi"
1967 Islander 29
Harbor Island, San Diego
2/7/67 A4 Engine Block date
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 75.157.247.99
Old 09-26-2011, 11:00 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Posts: 679
Thanks: 91
Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
Serial numbers

I think it says 052379 on the block, above the carb...does that make any sense?
I removed the blue paint (who would paint that?) from the copper lubrication instruction plate on the transmission. Almost all the info is gone, but at the bottom can still read stamped UJ 74688. Probably an older tranny?

-Marty
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 75.157.247.99
Old 09-26-2011, 11:07 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Posts: 679
Thanks: 91
Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
flywheel cover + SN

Thanks Jim,

I was posting when your reply came in. Old A4 is on the boat (Vancouver). New A4 is on an engine stand here on Bowen Island.I'll bring home the old flywheel cover later this week and compare. So, Do the two types of starters need different flywheels?

So SN = block is May 23 1979?

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 107.0.6.243
Old 09-26-2011, 11:07 AM
hanleyclifford's Avatar
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,987
Thanks: 176
Thanked 285 Times in 228 Posts
Talking

You can definitely use your old cast iron flywheel housing with the early starter and flywheel. In some cases (mine for example) I use the new (Delco) starter and flywheel with the cast (early) housing. Don Moyer has a discussion of this in The Manual.
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 75.157.247.99
Old 11-08-2011, 02:25 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Posts: 679
Thanks: 91
Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
Question Paint thoughts again

Still wondering what the best way to go is. After all this work stripping, cleaning, masking...etc etc..its all for naught if the paint doesn't last. I hope never to see the bottom of the oil pan again, and I want to know its protected.

Today I contacted the major Vancouver marine mechanic service (Stem to Stern), who checked with their wholesaler's paint guy (Western Marine....not West). Came back with the assertion that degreasing, two coats of yellow zinc phosphate primer (95% zinc) and then two coats of acrylic lacquer engine paint was the best way to go.

Anyone have any experience with that type of primer on an engine?

Any info on how long the Moyer Marine paint lasts? (not that I can get that in Canada)

Anyone painted their engine and have it rust free/no peeling 15 years later? Please let me know what you used!

Thank you,
Marty
__________________
Marty
1967 Tartan 27
Bowen Island, BC

Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 128.183.140.38
Old 11-08-2011, 09:31 AM
edwardc's Avatar
edwardc edwardc is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 2,491
Thanks: 153
Thanked 593 Times in 387 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Levenson View Post
...Any info on how long the Moyer Marine paint lasts? (not that I can get that in Canada)

Anyone painted their engine and have it rust free/no peeling 15 years later? ...
1 year down, 14 to go!
__________________
@(^.^)@ Ed
1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita"
with rebuilt Atomic-4

Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 75.157.247.99
Old 11-12-2011, 06:20 PM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Posts: 679
Thanks: 91
Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
Started putting paint to metal...

...and it feels great to begin the next stage. Today I began with the oil pan. It had been caustic tanked last week, came out beautiful, but grew tiny bits of rust as it sat. It took little time to remove that with my angle grinder and a wire brush. Here's what I did after that:
1. I masked all the gasket faces with artists contact paper and tape.
2. sprayed brake cleaner
3. blew dry immediately with compressed air
4. suited up with heavy rubber gloves, coat, respirator, face shield. Garage fan on, windows open.
5. sprayed yellow zinc chromate primer. Had a hard time deciding between that and yellow zinc phosphate primer, but internet search and discussion with a local boat guy who has been accurate in the past decided me. VERY toxic and carcinogenic, but is sometimes called cold galvanizing. He had long lasting good results on two different projects. Can says "industrial use only" so that was a plus. Sprayed three light coats. Used a heat gun in between as it was a little on the cool side.
6. sprayed a medium gray engine enamel: three medium coats, heat gun in between again.

Pictures below: #1- stripped (glare makes it look mottled). #2 - masked. #3 - primed. #4 - painted (3/4" oil plug will come out for the Indigo oil filter kit.) #5 - bit of overspray snuck under the masking...it slipped a little when I turned the pan over to spray the top of the flange.

More masking later today, spray those parts tomorrow. When my gasket shows up I'll reinstall the pan, flip over the engine and do the same to the block and head. Feel a little unsure about using that primer on the manifold: might use a contrasting colour high heat paint without primer for that.

-Marty
Attached Images
     
__________________
Marty
1967 Tartan 27
Bowen Island, BC

Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 71.183.233.249
Old 11-12-2011, 09:27 PM
Loki9's Avatar
Loki9 Loki9 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 379
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Looks great. Nothing like a clean freshly painted engine. So much easier to love.
__________________
Jeff Taylor
Baltic 38DP
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 174.94.19.180
Old 11-12-2011, 09:43 PM
67c&ccorv's Avatar
67c&ccorv 67c&ccorv is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London, ON
Posts: 1,559
Thanks: 4
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
I have had very good success with electroless nickel (E3) coatings on many components of my motorcycles over the years.

It is an easily applied finish that will cover aluminum or steel parts and offers a very good base for paint of many types.

If I ever tear down my 1967 A-4 E3 will be applied to as many components of the engine as I can afford.

Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 75.157.230.176
Old 12-07-2011, 02:34 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Posts: 679
Thanks: 91
Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
gloating with fingers crossed

Well, getting near the end of painting. Volvo gray and Cat yellow. Should have the new head gaskets and studs before the weekend, and will assemble then. Starter, carb, flywheel housing and cover ready to install.

The end of Phase 1 will be testing. Phase 2 is getting the old A4 out of the boat. Phase 3 is cleaning up the disasterous engine room. Phase 4 is rewiring. Phase 5 is install rebuilt A4! Next winter there may be a Phase 6: rebuilding old A4.

Did a partial "dry assembly" of most parts today....an excuse to gloat. Photos below. Every time I go into the garage for anything I end up staying there at least 45 minutes tinkering.

Thanks for all the help so far: lots more questions to follow, no doubt!

-Marty
Attached Images
    
__________________
Marty
1967 Tartan 27
Bowen Island, BC

Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 72.45.54.12
Old 12-07-2011, 08:08 AM
TomG's Avatar
TomG TomG is offline
Afourian MVP Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kent Island, MD
Posts: 656
Thanks: 73
Thanked 93 Times in 53 Posts
Wow, Marty! She looks FANTASTIC! Nice work.
__________________
Tom
"Patina"
1977 Tartan 30
Repowered with MMI A-4 2008
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 148.170.241.1
Old 12-07-2011, 08:39 AM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,198
Thanks: 2
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Thumbs up

I am totally digging that paint scheme! Looks very utilitarian and purposeful.

SCHWEET!!
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 71.183.233.249
Old 12-07-2011, 08:44 AM
Loki9's Avatar
Loki9 Loki9 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 379
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I like the color scheme, it looks great!
__________________
Jeff Taylor
Baltic 38DP
Reply With Quote
  #19   IP: 75.157.230.176
Old 12-07-2011, 03:02 PM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Posts: 679
Thanks: 91
Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
Hold your applause...

...until she fires up and doesn't leak!

I'm happy with the colours, too. In real life the yellow is a bit more mustard than it looks on my screen (used a flash and didn't do any correcting after). I like the way the light gray makes the parts stand out in contrast.

Thanks for the encouragement! The forum really does give me confidence that the inevitable problems will get solved...with help.

Hopefully more soon,
Marty
__________________
Marty
1967 Tartan 27
Bowen Island, BC

Reply With Quote
  #20   IP: 75.157.230.176
Old 12-07-2011, 03:18 PM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Posts: 679
Thanks: 91
Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
studs and head

The long corner stud that goes through the therm housing is the only one I didn't remove. It was very tight, and looks to be JB welded. I figure I'm looking for trouble if I force it out, and have no reason to suspect a problem.

The manual mentions scoring the block deck with an ice pick. I assume that's to help the gasket get a better grip? The engine had hardly been run (by PO) before I removed the gasket, so it cleaned up pretty easily with a razor. Should I do more than that? What should I look for? What about the bottom face of the head (a barely used MMI).

I plan to run a tap through the stud holes today to clean rust, etc. The studs that came out had lost a few threads due to corrosion. Any tips about that? I'm not experienced with tap and die work, but gather the secret is go slow, back out frequently, use a light oil. Plan to reinstall with Permatex #2.

Hopefully head goes on with 16 new studs on Saturday.

I dreamed about top dead center last night!

Thanks,
Marty
__________________
Marty
1967 Tartan 27
Bowen Island, BC

Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 08:27 AM
Newenglandah
This message has been deleted by Newenglandah.
  #22   IP: 66.183.218.128
Old 12-17-2011, 12:57 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Posts: 679
Thanks: 91
Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
looking ahead

Waiting for my studs and nuts from MM, and thinking about what comes after getting the head back on!

While the A4 is still n the engne stand, I built a wooden skid with wheels, with an extension for the FWC set up. (see photos). Want to test it when I test start. Gauges will be mounted on the top of the plywood.

On our Tartan 27 the heat ex and cond. bottle will be in the starboard sail locker....about 2.5 feet aft of the transmission.

The engine came with good SW gauges, that were new in 2009. Am I right that G=ground, S=sender, and I=ignition? Wondering what to do for a cheap, easy start switch when I do the testing.

Added some photos of my workshop table: ready for assembly! Stil haven't painted the alternator, but plan to.

Fun!
-Marty
Attached Images
    
__________________
Marty
1967 Tartan 27
Bowen Island, BC

Reply With Quote
  #23   IP: 174.65.46.46
Old 12-17-2011, 02:03 AM
jpian0923's Avatar
jpian0923 jpian0923 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 976
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Fun and Exciting for sure!

My critical eye takes over though. There are "two" head gaskets there, right?
__________________
"Jim"
S/V "Ahoi"
1967 Islander 29
Harbor Island, San Diego
2/7/67 A4 Engine Block date
Reply With Quote
  #24   IP: 66.183.218.128
Old 12-17-2011, 02:12 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Posts: 679
Thanks: 91
Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
2 head gaskets

roger that.

-Marty
__________________
Marty
1967 Tartan 27
Bowen Island, BC

Reply With Quote
  #25   IP: 174.65.46.46
Old 12-17-2011, 02:18 AM
jpian0923's Avatar
jpian0923 jpian0923 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 976
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
For simple bench testing this is what I used. (credit: Neil Dutton)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...&postcount=106
__________________
"Jim"
S/V "Ahoi"
1967 Islander 29
Harbor Island, San Diego
2/7/67 A4 Engine Block date
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved