In addition to the engine...

[congoboard]

So I have a new custom holding tank on the way from Ocean Link in Rhode Island and have decided to go with a Plastimo flexible water tank for now (cheapest cost alternative). Now I am on to sorting out the wiring to my mast. The PO drilled through the deck about a foot away from the mast (on the opposite side of the opening in the mast naturally) and ran the wires exposed over to the 2" hole in the mast. The sealant at the hole has held so far and so far only the insulation on the antenna wire has decomposed. There are 4 sets of quick connects (corroded) stuffed inside the 2" hole including the antenna.

I am not an electrical engineering genius but it seems to me that there must be a much better way to handle all of this. How is this set up on other folks boats with deck stepped M\masts? Does anyone know of any resources that discuss repairs to this area?

Apologies again for an off topic post


In addition to issues with my A4 engine in my 1978 Newport 30 I have issues with my water and holding tanks. I hope it is not too far off topic to ask about this here. You folks give the best advice available -for the price. My admiral will not sail with a hint of head smell - if she doesn't sail I don't sail if you know what I mean so this is serious.

The PO installed a 25 gallon Nauta flexible holding tank in 1996 - I don't smell it but she does. Also the original 70 gallon plastic fresh water tank under the v berth has an unstopable leak at the supply fitting - just can't get it tight enough to hold water. There is no access panel to the interior of the tank to allow tightening of a fitting from both sides.

So my question is what are the opinions about flexible tanks ? The easy approach would be replace both tanks with flexible tanks that I could order right out of a catalog. The better but more complicated (and expensive) approach would be to get two new hard tanks made. I figure I could get a couple of seasons out of the flexible holding tank before it smelled too bad again. Thoughts would be appreciated.

[msmith10]

The holding tank odor could come from the tank, the hose, or the vent. I think I'd replace a 20 year old flexible tank. What to replace it with would be an economic and labor issue- if you have room for a hard tank, fine. If not I'd use a new flexible tank. Replace the hosing with odor-resistant hosing. I have a charcoal vent filter on my vent but I've heard pros and cons about these- that they may just cut down airflow and make things worse. I haven't found that to be the case, but fyi. No filter will help if the tank and hose is saturated.
As far as the water tank, do you have access to the top of the tank to install a cleanout? No water tank should be without one for periodic scrubbing. After a scrub, I add some chlorox, drain, rinse and refill and my water is fine for 3 weeks or so. I do frequently drain the tanks, though, for racing, so they usually don't sit long enough to become a problem.
I think the key is a cleanout. That would also let you tighten the old fitting or install a new one.

[Mo]

Hi,

Holding tank: change out everything, hoses also right from the head to the tank. These plastic tanks and hoses emit a fragrance over time. When the smell starts it's time to change it out. All of the "Fabreeze" in the world isn't going to help. When you remove the tank ensure a good cleaning of the bulkhead areas it was up against...you will find lots of mold etc there... guaranteed.

Water Tank: Can you post some pictures of the fitting and any visible areas such as the top...I'm thinking access points. The water tanks in my C&C 30 have removable hatches for cleaning etc. The whole top can be lifted off them. Might want to look into making a hatch for that tank, do the repair as required. It may need a fitting and / or epoxy repair depending on cause of the leak. Then clean it well....and good until next springs cleaning.

If you are able to cut an access hole go to a place that sells lexan or heavy plastic and have something made up a little bit larger than the hole you cut...about an inch all around larger. Then go to RV repair dealer and get some of the grey stuff they use to seal RV windows (I forget what it's called) and put under the lower edge. Drill screw holes about 1.5 inches apart and screw the top down with sheat metal screws (they will work fine). The sealant will spread out and remain pliable. That's how my tanks were done from factory and the hatch doesn't leak.

[Kurt]

I know it is not exactly Coast Guard approved, but I have always put one of those in-line canisters with the screw off top in the hose that runs from the through hull to the head itself. I keep a 1" chlorine tablet in there. Everytime you flush, the chlorine goes through your whole system in very small amounts. Your head will never smell bad again. Just a little "clean" chlorine smell from time to time. I never had this system wreak any kind of havok on my hoses or tank.

[jhwelch]

You can search for Peggy Hall on google (she has been the master of boat sanitation for a long time) or read this great article:

http://boatbuilding.com/article.php/MarineSanitationFactvsFolklore

Start about halfway down, at
Sanitation Hose:
Lots of Folklore

The short answer is to prevent odor you need fresh air.

I made a big mistake years ago when I installed a rubber bladder for my holding take. Phew. I leave the pumpout cap off to help with air, but suspect it doesn't make that much of a difference.

-Jonathan

[sastanley]

oh boy..another system I've done (twice!) from the ground up!

congo, I went custom when I did holding tanks...for this boat, and when replacing the failed holding tank in my step-father's Tartan. I am also not fond of flexible tanks for black water (sewage). What if something cut that thing open!!?!?!?!?!

The first thing is to replace the joker valve..it is a $10 valve that keeps the 'stuff' in the pipes and out of the head..they are a maintenance item like an impeller...they are soft rubber and only hold the small back for so long. Every two years seems about right.

Don't re-invent the wheel on the engineering of a new system..someone else has likely already done what you are planning. My tanks were custom because I wanted ALL of the fittings on TOP of the tank..no chance for leaks that way (used a dipstick tube for the pump-out side as well)..the other problem with cutting access ports into "semi-custom" tanks for installing your own fittings is more chance for leaks. I had my NPT fittings welded (plastic) right to the inside of the tank wall before it was assembled.

Spring the money for the good hose..Sealand's "Odorsafe" is the best..and it is $8/foot. Find it on the internet for $8, and take that price to your local WestMarine and they'll match it. it is bulky and doesn't bend so it is expensive to ship too! Carefully map out your amounts first. 1 foot too short on a 10 foot run is expensive.

Double clamp all head related fittings...no one wants the smell in the boat. Make vent system as big as you can, and two if you can..cross ventilation is the key to breaking down the weekend's treats left in the tank while you are at work during the week. (we are pretty good about planning a 'pump-out trip' on the way in as standard procedure..the tank is usually empty when we get off the boat.)

Pick up Peggy Hall's book on the Internet (she is also available directly via the SBO forum) - it will explain the why's of boat smells and help you design a system.

One trick to see if your hoses have failed (smell permeating the hose wall) is to wrap a moist rag around a section of hose..if the rag smells after 15 minutes, the hoses are shot. I suspect the flexible tank membrane let's smells thru too...I'd pitch it and go rigid!

[Marian Claire]

Congo: This does not address your question but. How long are your trips on the boat? Less than a a few days? If so why not remove the holding tank and old hoses. They need to go anyway, pun intended. Keep the head and use Wag bags. Use it, seal it and no stink. Down side is they are $$$. May be a short term solution. Dan S/V Marian Claire

[ILikeRust]

Don't overlook the possibility of a composting toilet - the two big names are Nature's Head and the AirHead. The PO of my boat took out the old and decrepit marine head and installed an AirHead composting toilet. So far, so good.

[Antibes]

The hose fitting on my bladder holding tank popped out two years ago. That was not a happy day, so I replaced all my hoses as others have recommended, and moved my tank under the v berth where I had more space. Very happy with the company that I used and the outcome http://trioniccorp.com/marine-a-rv-tanks.html

Cleaning out the water tank with a little bleach once a season works for me.

[lat 64]

I voted for Shawn's post "very helpful"

My temporary solution was just a Coleman porta-poti. set on the floor in the head. Works for most all day sailing and even overnighting. If that thing even thinks about failing I will just boot it into the dumpster and get another. I put a little vinegar in the top tank and in the cassette holding tank.

Forgot to say; I don't have a holding tank on my boat, never had one. That's why I put the Porta-Poti in, It's my "two-mile limit"

[sastanley]

lat, thanks.

Dealing with poop on board is no fun. I do not discourage anyone that has a better solution like Airheads, etc.. I do not have any personal experience with them, but don't hear too much bad.

When the holding tank failed on my stepfather's boat on one of the first long cruises I did with my wife, and we had the pump out hose at a swanky marina/resort down thru the forward hatch trying to suck out stuff out of the tank's inspection port in a failing tank, it was not a fun day....ugh.

I appreciated the help I had from my cruising mates that day, and that winter they helped me rebuild/replace the system too. But I don't wish that kinda sh!t (literally) on anyone.

Once I got my own boat, that was the first system I fixed, even before the engine.

Incidentally, I used Triple M plastics in Maine. They specialize in tankage for fire trucks and such, so their reputation is pretty good. I built a mock-up tank under the v-berth with 1 x 2's & duct tape (kinda like the same techniques Neil taught me with the furniture patterning we've discussed before around here without realizing it at the time), to make sure it would fit thru the opening in the v-berth, measured, took pics, sent specs, and they delivered exactly what I asked for. (I sorta borrowed the initial size from Catalina, since they decided to put a water tank in the v-berth, but I needed to make sure it would fit in my boat, so, you get the idea...)

here's a couple of pics for reference. I can't find the diagram I where I specified all the fittings on top, but you get the point I think. Once I explained to them about typical suction style head pump outs and I wanted a "dip tube" in the fitting going to the deck pump out, they understood and built it perfectly. I'll try to snap a pic of the actual tank or look for one in my archives.