Failed to winterize, now big problems!

[tooltime]

Let me start by apologizing for the lengthy message.

Have a 1977 Pearson 323 that I decided to sell. I’m new to the Atomic 4 and have not winterized it previously but this winter in Texas was really extreme and I guess it has caused me some major problems. When I initially started the engine this spring, I quickly noticed a water leak and found 2 freeze plugs had popped out. Replaced with new and motor seemed to run fine afterwards. Started it 2-3 more times throughout the next couple of weeks and it ran fine. Also found that the fresh water pressure pump (not engine related) was cracked and leaking which I replaced.

Due to lengthy work hours, I decided to sell the boat and spent time ensuring it was in top shape. A prospective buyer came out to look at it and when we tried to start the engine it would not start. It ran fine the day before. After some initial testing, I felt I was not getting any spark (I could smell the gas so initially thought it wasn’t that). Coil was getting 12 volts input but could not see spark at spark plug end. Spark plugs also seemed to be pretty worn so I decided to replace condensor, points, distributor cap, plugs and wires since it had not been done in a while. Still would not start. Tested coil resistance and got 4 ohms across primary but infinite from negative to center post. Purchased another coil from Napa and plugged center plug wire back in while testing for spark on other end to engine block. I swear I don’t see a spark. Ready to lick my fingers and hold the metal to test for sure!!! (nah, don’t think I’ll try that one). Anyway, the story gets even better…

It appears that the cylinders are full of water as well. I read on this forum (after the fact of course...) that trying to start an engine that won’t start without shutting off water intake valve (wherever that is…) could cause this. I think I found the shutoff valve (pretty close to the coil?) but not sure. No engine diagrams or photos I found on internet seem to show where this shutoff valve is. Not even the repair manual I found.

I removed all spark plugs and turned the engine over a few times to try & remove as much water as possible. I think now my next move should be to pour some marvel in each cylinder and bump the starter a few times??? I’m not sure how to manually rotate the engine by hand as I’m sure that would be the preferred method. Checking the oil does not seem to indicate water in the oil but it also isn't quite the same color as the oil in my car, just a tad lighter.

And if things weren’t bad enough, I then discovered what I believe is called the “Exhaust elbow”? It’s connected to the manifold and has a big crack in it. In fact, it easily broke in half after I removed it. I’m ordering a replacement but my question is, could this broken exhaust elbow allow water into the cylinders? Or is this just another unrelated problem and I most likely have a broken head gasket issue (or even worse, cracked head or block!). And in the case of a cracked block, what’s a 1977 Pearson 323 worth without an engine?

I have a sick feeling this is another one of those life lessons learned the hard (and expensive) way! Thanks for any guidance you can provide!

[Dave Neptune]

First!

First welcome to the forum.

From what you have stated the thing(s) you need to check are the "block and the manifold" for integrity via a pressure check. Not a bad job and it will answer the big question of ~Is my block or manifold cracked?. These are things you need to know before wasting time on the connected systems.

Dave Neptune

[tooltime]

First welcome to the forum.

From what you have stated the thing(s) you need to check are the "block and the manifold" for integrity via a pressure check. Not a bad job and it will answer the big question of ~Is my block or manifold cracked?. These are things you need to know before wasting time on the connected systems.

Dave Neptune

Thank you for the response Dave. Thinking of picking up a compression tester at Harbor Freight for this purpose. I've already ordered the exhaust elbow & will replace anyway since it's for sure broken. I'll report back the readings when I have them.

[jcwright]

Hello tooltime.

I assume your engine is raw water cooled. Correct me if I'm wrong. Locate the hose that supplies water to the water pump. Follow it back to where it reaches the hull. You should have a gate valve or ball valve at the thru hull fitting that can be shut off before trying to start the engine.

(You may also have other valves in your setup. Some pictures would help.)

You can turn the engine over by hand using the pin at the forward (flywheel) end of the engine. You'll need the MMI hand crank tool or make your own from a socket. Some people use vicegrips on the prop shaft. Remove the spark plugs first.

Good luck.

Jack.

[Mo]

Well, sounds like you are into a major...well a minor major. I live in NS and every few years someone does exactly as you have. So, I'll cut right through the chase.

1. Ensure you have fire.
2. You need a compression check.
3. You need to pressure test your exhaust manifold.

Generally what happens is water break the wall in the exhaust manifold. The exhaust manifold has a dividing cast wall going down the middle of it. If it was either bit weak from corrossion it would fail along with popping the frost plugs...sometimes without popping the plugs.

What I would do without getting into too much right away is pull the plugs. Any " drops" on them means water, not gas. Next, you leave the plugs out. If a frost plug popped on the manifold itself hold your hand over that...now, remover both rubber hoses off the manilfold, one at each end. Block the furthest one from you with your thumb, blow into the one closest to you. If you hear air in the cylinders coming out of the spark plug holes, Voila, you manifold is done.

The reason I suggested a compression check is that if you broke the manifold and water drained into the cylinders it will seize up a valve or two. Manifold failure can put water in your cylinder and water in your oil as well...lots of it.

I'd go right there before I went too much further. Frost usually leave a big foot print when you need to find the problem.

As for the exhaust elbow, hot exhaust area...it will have to be replaced.

[tooltime]

Thank you Mo. One more question, I'm waiting on the exhaust elbow to arrive but also need what the parts manual calls a "nipple" (Part #2 in picture, part #207921, connects exhaust manifold to flange). It does not seem to be available. The actual nipple (which is now badly corroded) appears different than what is in the parts manual. Actual appears to be 1.5" internal diameter & a little over 3" long. I've been searching for a replacement but not much luck. Can these be replaced with another type of pipe that may be available from a hardware-type store?

[Dave Neptune]

tooltime, the exhaust systems today are being cobbled together with common tapered pipe fittings. Most of us use the "black pipe" as it does not have the galvanized coating that burns off with nasty gasses for a while. Also there are stainless steel fittings available too for a heftier price but they do last longer.

You might be able to save some room for maintenance by building your own a little different to make things easier to work around. I did a re-route on my boat so I could install an oil filter where the old exhaust line was passing through.

Dave Neptune

[joe_db]

tooltime, the exhaust systems today are being cobbled together with common tapered pipe fittings. Most of us use the "black pipe" as it does not have the galvanized coating that burns off with nasty gasses for a while. Also there are stainless steel fittings available too for a heftier price but they do last longer.

You might be able to save some room for maintenance by building your own a little different to make things easier to work around. I did a re-route on my boat so I could install an oil filter where the old exhaust line was passing through.

Dave Neptune

To amplify Dave's post:
There is only one part of the exhaust that is specific to the A4, it is this: https://moyermarine.com/product/exha...e-exht_04_127/



Everything else can be made from hardware store parts one way or another. There are numerous threads on here about making exhaust systems.
That said, don't bother until you know if the manifold and block are sound.

[edwardc]

It appears that the cylinders are full of water as well. I read on this forum (after the fact of course...) that trying to start an engine that won’t start without shutting off water intake valve (wherever that is…) could cause this. I think I found the shutoff valve (pretty close to the coil?) but not sure.

On my '77 Pearson 323, the water shutoff valve is located in the bilge, midway between the hatch under the steps and the hatch next to the dinette. Its a mild nuisance to get to.

The one you are describing close to the coil is likely for one of the two cockpit scupper drains.

...I’m ordering a replacement but my question is, could this broken exhaust elbow allow water into the cylinders? Or is this just another unrelated problem ...

The cracked elbow is likely freeze damage and not responsible for the water in the cylinders.

[tooltime]

Update

I wanted to provide an update to this thread. Replaced broken exhaust elbow, new head gaskets, new exhaust manifold gasket, new carburetor gasket, new ignition system (points, condenser, distributor, plugs, wires, coil), changed oil. Now she runs smooth & like new. No more water in cylinders.

Thanks to all for your replies!