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Old 11-22-2016, 10:48 PM
Wrsteinesq Wrsteinesq is offline
 
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1/8" NPT drain plugs; optimum style?

I have recently pulled the three drain plugs on the block for winterization. Some are more difficult to get to than others. I have become aware that there are at least three styles of plugs offered for sale: hex head, squarehead, and Allen key. Maybe there are others, too.

What's the thinking regarding the best selection of the style? What is most foolproof in terms of later removal? I have previously accidentally rounded off the edges of one of the square style of plugs; perhaps another style is less prone to being boogered up? What's the best sort of "sealant" to use? Teflon tape? Never-Seize? Permatex No. 3 Aviation? Thread lock? Thanks!
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Old 11-23-2016, 01:05 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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I vote for hex head or allen key. The choice would depend on your access. I like the idea of being able to put a socket on it.
While you have the plugs out chase or tap the threads.
For sealant I like something called TFE paste. It is a pipe thread compound (AKA pipe dope). If you use it it will help the seal and make later removal easier. Ace hardware sells a house brand of the stuff in a small tube. Also available on line.

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Old 11-23-2016, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post

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I like nevr seize - oldschool I know. What is it - aluminium powder in grease? - dunno but it sticks, even in salt water. Messy cleanup tho.
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Old 11-23-2016, 09:54 AM
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nipple and cap

Wondering if you have the nipple and cap -- at least for the rear one. Makes draining all so much easier. I plan to do similar replacement for the manifold plug (with a shorter nipple).

see Moyer catalouge in brass parts.

http://www.moyermarine.com/cgi-bin/s...key=BRSS_04_78
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Old 11-23-2016, 10:00 AM
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I've always had good luck with three wraps of Teflon tape on the threads before insertion.
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Old 11-23-2016, 10:09 AM
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Old 11-24-2016, 11:00 AM
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Thank you all for the feedback. I did not know about the nipple and cap; I will add this to the list of refinements. To all a Happy Thanksgiving!
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Old 11-24-2016, 11:32 PM
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Further info as to nipple and cap: I have read another thread somewhere on this forum suggesting that vibration and corrosion makes this brass nipple subject to breaking off, which would obviously negate any advantage.

I've discovered that McMaster-Carr sells Schedule 80 stainless 1/8" NPT nipples for just a couple of bucks more than the brass ones. Any reason this wouldn't be in all ways preferable?
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Old 11-27-2016, 12:57 PM
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durable?

As with all parts Moyer sells, I would call Ken at parts line and see if he has heard any such stories. The rear lower where mine is installed has faithfully stayed true. As others have said, if plugs are easily accessible, there may be no reason to go this route, but nipple/cap are relatively inexpensive so worth a shot for ease of draining next time around.
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Old 11-27-2016, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
vibration and corrosion makes this brass nipple subject to breaking off
Not the brass nipples, those stories usually involve a galvanized iron nipple which would have been original equipment in earlier motors.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:45 PM
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A problem with using a pipe cap on the end of that 1/8" x 6" nipple is that when you go to remove the cap to drain the block, you may end up loosening/removing the nipple from the block also. Tight quarters makes holding the nipple with a vice grip or pipe wrench difficult unless you remove the alternator first. An easy solution is to add a small ball valve to the nipple instead of a cap. See McMaster.
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Old 11-28-2016, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marthur View Post
Not the brass nipples, those stories usually involve a galvanized iron nipple which would have been original equipment in earlier motors.
I am pretty sure this was the setup in my boat. The P.O. had Marine Tex'd the nipple back in place, but the threads in the block were no good. I re-threaded the hole to 1/4" NPT and installed a brass nipple in 2009 and have had zero trouble with it since then. Now that I have FWC, I will likely remove the nipple and simply install a plug to have one less thing to catch a tool on.

If you must drain the block, I like tac's idea. I recall needing to re-direct the liquid flying out of the block back into the bilge with a 6" nipple installed.
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Last edited by sastanley; 11-28-2016 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 11-29-2016, 08:57 AM
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IIRC. Some of the problems, breaks, were attributed to the extra weight added to the end of the long nipple putting stress on the end in the block.
Dan
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sastanley (11-30-2016)
  #13   IP: 174.192.1.118
Old 11-29-2016, 10:48 AM
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I fully agree with the strength question. Years ago when my engine was raw water cooled, it had a brass 6" nipple. When I went to FW cooled 13 years ago, I removed that nipple, finding few threads left on its block end (it came off in my hand with a half twist). If there is a reason to use brass in contact with a steel bock with saltwater running through it, it might be because the zinc in the brass is sacrificial, instead of the steel in the block. But in salt water this can end up with crumbling threads on the engine end of the nipple. This makes it easy to break off.

When going to FWC I used a Sked 80 316 stainless nipple, which is pretty strong, much stronger than brass. In antifreeze there should be little corrosion. Last month I removed that nipple after 13 years, inspected the threads on both it and the block, and could see and measure no deterioration on either. An NPT tap lightly run in the block came out clean.

Hanging anything on a 1/8" x 6" pipe, especially brass, is a risk. However, the location is pretty well shielded from anything hitting it, except when changing the alternator belt.
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Old 11-29-2016, 07:19 PM
Wrsteinesq Wrsteinesq is offline
 
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Tac, that's exactly the feedback I was looking for. I, too, have converted over to FWC, so once the antifreeze is in, the only reason for that nipple is for flushing. But I expect flushing will in fact be necessary from time to time, and not wanting to have to remove the alternator to do so, the Schedule 80 SS nipple seems to be in all ways superior to the brass.

The only thing I worried about was, I HAVE had a brass nipple break off. And being brass, it wasn't hard to extract the remains. Stainless, if it work-hardened and broke off, might be a different story.

Your experience seems to have been, thirteen years didn't create that problem. That's good enough for me!
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:50 AM
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Block Flushing

I too was concerned about the need for periodic flushing after going to FWC. When I went to FWC, that rear block drain hole was plugged solid with crud. This on an engine that was in fresh water for all its life except for the last 5 yrs in salt. I removed the side plate and dug crud out with screwdriver and cold chisel, then flushed using 3 gal of vinegar in a bucket with a submersible basement sump pump. Huge clots of corroded iron came out over a 24 hour period before the discharge ran somewhat clear (over a 24 hr period the vinegar temp climbed about 50 degrees - a testimony to friction and pump work). I finished off with a mild solution of muriatic acid for 2 hrs, then neutralized with baking soda, and flushed with clear water.

I use the Indigo FWC kit that uses a thermostatic control valve instead of a thermostat. The TCV actuator has some small internal clearances . Any new or remaining loose crud could impede the valve action, so I added a 3/4" Y-strainer, with 20 mesh basket, before the TCV. For the first year I checked the strainer every month and found some particles, usually about sugar granule size, and too few to impede flow. After a couple years, I only check the strainer 1 or 2 times a season. This year there were only 10 or so particles for 100 hrs operation.

I'm slowly gaining confidence that, with antifreeze, there probably is no need to flush periodically.

Keckly F-150 $25 3/4" bronze, with 20 mesh screen

http://www.keckley.com/assets/files/...og%20Pages.pdf

Bronze Y-Strainers
* Max. Pressure:
* Water, Oil, Inert Gas, and Diesel Fuel: 200 psi @ 70° F
* Steam: 125 psi @ 400° F
* Temp. Range: -20° to 400° F
Safeguard against damage to valves, pumps, nozzles, and traps from debris in your pipeline. Body is bronze and screen is Type 304 stainless steel. Connections are NPT female.

Bronze Y-Strainer, 1/2 NPT Female, 20 Mesh
http://www.mcmaster.com/#43935K23
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:28 PM
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tac, thanks for all those details. More work than I am willing to do, but appreciated nonetheless. I ran a potable water strainer in my antifreeze loop the first season and then removed it. I am now on season 4 (I think) of FWC, and I plan to take the HX home this winter and change the pencil zinc and flush the raw water side...In turn, that will make me add some fresh antifreeze too, which has a little bit of Chesapeake Bay black dead animal residue floating around in the overflow tank from time to time...but not too much to worry me.
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http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif

Last edited by sastanley; 12-02-2016 at 11:31 PM.
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