New to me, Oasis, 1974 Peason 30, A4 serial no.191902

[TimBSmith]

P30 fuel tank removal.....

Thank you for this post. Private messaged you earlier before I had read this. Did you document or write up your tank removal process somewhere? Would like to clean in-place, though recognize there may come a day when removal for reconditioning or replacement becomes necessary.

3 years...ouch...End to end replacement and found fuel lines clogged....got it...I have seen where several others have replaced fuel lines....beyond tank cleanout and tank/fuel maintenance/monitoring...I will note and consider fuel line condition monitoring and maintenance point here. Goes on the list...

Still would like to hear from you if you have a preferred in place tank cleaning method. I am exploring agitation methods for the in place as I put together a plan and work the carb angle of the acute problem--and go upstream with a more preventive approach to heading-off chronic fuel issues like so many have mentioned...and most important having confidence in my fuel system while sailing. Steady forward.... Grateful. Stay well. Tim

[JOHN COOKSON]

DANG RIGHT

and go upstream with a more preventive approach to heading-off chronic fuel issues like so many have mentioned...and most important having confidence in my fuel system while sailing. Steady forward. Tim

Doubts are not a good thing to have when out on the water.
Everybody is a bit different but IMHO but if you have doubts about your boat, engine, crew, sailing ability, and so on it's time to get off the water and sort things out.

ex TRUE GRIT

It's also a good idea to have your anchor gear sorted out in case of emergency.

[TimBSmith]

Appreciate posts back and messages.

At the boat last night. First since main jet spray with carb cleaner. (That was a trick to get the can and straw aligned with tunnel bolt hole. In P30 engine space).

Jumped electric pump at oil pressure switch, ran pump 2x for 5 minutes. The gas drained from tunnel about a drip or two per second. Same volume both times, maybe a couple of ounces, is this normal?

First drain was little milkier than second. First drain was after carb cleaner in tunnel overnight, so imagine I got some varnish out?

Replaced tunnel plug bolt. Checked all plugs for spark. Set choke and feather up on throttle. Ran starter twice, no startup.

Removed flame arrester, cranked and sprayed starter fluid, engine turned over. Then replaced flame arrestor, closed choke and feathered throttle. Engine turned over and exhaust and water exited from stern. Let run only 10/20 seconds because not cooled and I was running out of time and sun had gone down. I expect this was residual starter fluid though maybe the vacuum from starter fluid start temporarily cleared main jet and fed carb. Checked all plugs, no sign of fouling or wetness. Today I will try starting again and if start will let run briefly with cooling. Then shut down and remove carb for disassembly and cleaning. Found this(attached) great carb diagram from old Dave N or John C post. Numbered disassembly guide.

Encouraged by further evidence of this being fuel system centered yesterday.
Eager to filter and clean tank and get this carb cleaned and reinstalled, tested. Steady forward.

Grateful. Stay well. Tim

[Sam]

Well, first of all your not going to run 10-20 sec on starter fluid. You would expect a couple of cylinders firing indicating "spark". so I think your close to resolving your problem.

Relative to tank cleaning I went thru this whole thought process about 5yrs ago. I have a 1966 Morgan 34 with original engine and monel tank with direct fill from the cockpit. Had some running problems and used a bright inspection light into the tank and was surprised by amount of black gunk on bottom. I had changed a worn black rubber pick up tube years ago with a fixed cooper one which I think added to the problem especially with ethanol marine gas. to "clean" the tank I jury rigged a cheap electric [$20] fuel pump on a board with extended wires and clamps to one of the batteries. I used inexpensive clear plastic gas resistant hoses for inlet and outlet along with $10 glass filter [little white disposable elements are 40 microns]. I moved the inlet hose around thru the fill whole as best I could and even tied to a stiffer old garden hose to maneuver it around even more. I clogged cleaned & changed elements in the filter multiple times and flushed the tank with the old gas a few times and repeated. I did not want the work invoved with pulling the tank nor did I have a cleaning service option. Worked fine ever since and regularly pump out the bottom gallon or so every season. this might help.

[JOHN COOKSON]

The carb diagram was from me. Here's couple more if I can get them to attach.







ex TRUE GRIT

[TimBSmith]

Carburetor and fuel cleanup....

Sam and John,

Thanks for timely posts, helps with weekend project... Also got a pleasant early delivery from Moyer. Will post back if/as needed when I am down road further on disassembly and tank filter/clean in place...

[edwardc]

...Jumped electric pump at oil pressure switch, ran pump 2x for 5 minutes. The gas drained from tunnel about a drip or two per second. Same volume both times, maybe a couple of ounces, is this normal? ...

I would say no, not normal. With the carb drain plug out, the float bowl should be empty, causing the float neeedle valve to be wide open. The bowl holds about a cup of fuel when full, and I've found that the electric pump can fill it within 15 sec. This works out to at least a quart a minute that should be coming out of that drain hole. Either your float valve is not fully releasing, there is an obstruction between the fuel inlet fitting and the float valve, or your pump is not putting out the volume it should be.

Remember, pressure is not the same thing as volume. Test your fuel pump volume by removing the fuel line from the carb and putting it into an empty gas can. Energize the pump and run it for a timed minute and see how much gas you get in the can. It should be a substatnial amount, not a few ounces. If the pump fails, that's the problem. If the pump passes, the problem's in the carb, and it will need to come off to clean it by passing a fine wire through each and every passage (just spraying carb cleaner won't cut it).

If the pump is the problem, and you have a Facet brand pump, I've had repeated problems with the pump's internal check valve ball getting stuck and restricting the pump's output volume. The test and temp fix is easy.

Place a wrench (I believe it's 7/8") on the nut shaped boss on the bottom of the pump and use it to release the bayonet twist-off bottom. Have something handy to catch the small amount of fuel that will come out. The check valve ball is reachable with a finger tip. Gently press it. It should move smoothly against a spring. If it doesn't, press harder. It will break free with an audible and palpable "click" and then move smoothly. This will temporarily fix the problem, but it WILL stick again if left unused for a while. The only long term fix is to replace the pump.

[TimBSmith]

Fuel and carb trouble shooting follow-up...

Hi Ed,

Was just doing research...following and messaged you on your old thread on floats...now I find this post...believe I am on right track and this gives me containment all the way around bowl drip mystery. When I removed the carb today and started disassembly it had a lot of fuel sloshing around in it. The floats don't seem to have any leaks, yet there is strange wear on one of them. Unclear if/how related to lack of fuel being transited from bowl to venturi or the slow drip at main tunnel bolt hole during pump/carb testing.

Worth slowing down to address each element..curious float evidence first...I have an album of photos from last 2 days carb removal and disassembly visits..disassembly almost complete.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6hEzNuvpMshSYB4U6

NO need to review these I will link specific pictures as needed.

I would say no, not normal. With the carb drain plug out, the float bowl should be empty, causing the float neeedle valve to be wide open. The bowl holds about a cup of fuel when full, and I've found that the electric pump can fill it within 15 sec. This works out to at least a quart a minute that should be coming out of that drain hole. Either your float valve is not fully releasing, there is an obstruction between the fuel inlet fitting and the float valve, or your pump is not putting out the volume it should be.

The specifics on bowl volume are extremely helpful, also excellent help from a commenter on my Pearson group who described stream flow characteristics, very helpful. Float valve, fuel inlet, pump volume understand for isolating focus. Continuing to clean carb and tank regardless.
Float continuation...There is a strange wear patter on the bottom of my left float. Welcome and diagnostic value you or team can add. https://photos.app.goo.gl/cjVWkgeejuostNvw8 The float is contacting the bowl enough to rub a mark on it see picture https://photos.app.goo.gl/agThqGoAknSAhesDA

Remember, pressure is not the same thing as volume. Test your fuel pump volume by removing the fuel line from the carb and putting it into an empty gas can. Energize the pump and run it for a timed minute and see how much gas you get in the can. It should be a substatnial amount, not a few ounces. If the pump fails, that's the problem. If the pump passes, the problem's in the carb, and it will need to come off to clean it by passing a fine wire through each and every passage (just spraying carb cleaner won't cut it).

I will do this at the boat tomorrow. Have not been satisfied with bolt hole flow as test for carb and pump and you just sealed it with the pressure/volume comment. No pun intended. Needed that.

If the pump is the problem, and you have a Facet brand pump, I've had repeated problems with the pump's internal check valve ball getting stuck and restricting the pump's output volume. The test and temp fix is easy.

Noted. I have a Facet will keep this in mind after volume test tomorrow. Will attempt check ball quick fix and retest. And reminder that I need a backup pump anyway as part of my contingency kit.

Place a wrench (I believe it's 7/8") on the nut shaped boss on the bottom of the pump and use it to release the bayonet twist-off bottom. Have something handy to catch the small amount of fuel that will come out. The check valve ball is reachable with a finger tip. Gently press it. It should move smoothly against a spring. If it doesn't, press harder. It will break free with an audible and palpable "click" and then move smoothly. This will temporarily fix the problem, but it WILL stick again if left unused for a while. The only long term fix is to replace the pump.

Understood. Excellent. I will post back after isolating pump volume, cleaning, reassembling, and reinstalling carb, cleaning fuel tank. Found out also, I did not test float valve/throat leak by loading carb with fuel 3 min using pump with channel bolt in. Understand that is a test I could have run before disassembly. Though if pump volume too low this might result in false positive pass. So pump volume test first anyway. Noted for future. Thankful. Stay well. Tim

[TimBSmith]

Progress Update Fuel Tank Cleaning, Carburetor Maintenance

Well overdue to post an update here. Many thanks to all who have assisted including Ken at MMI as I was reassembling carburetor this past Friday afternoon. These notes are for and from a complete newbie. If you are more experience you may find them a bit tedious.

Fuel pump volume testing- positive results.
30 seconds of fuel pump glory..second run link below...moment of panic when fuel was overshooting container.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ck9uEY1xGdHW4ZBt9

Pump volume from 2 X15 +- second runs.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/USny1XvZmexenZLS7

Fuel Tank Cleaning
About a week ago I added 2 cans of Berryman's Fuel System Cleaner to 5 gallons of new regular gasoline(hunting for ZERO alchohol) in my tank.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/if8mn6fJo3f5KAQB6

I wanted to know what is hidden in my fuel tank and based on information decide if I needed to do more aggressive tank cleaning..
I have learned that garbage in garbage out applies to the fuel system. Over a couple of days fabricated a transfer pump and filter system combining ideas I have seen described here and elsewhere. This, to allow me to have a window into that condition of fuel after soaking and agitating. A lot of commenters bought very inexpensive fuel pumps for their setup. I decided to buy a midrange pump with a fine filter and I added a gross particle filter. Here is my external fuel filtering setup.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zh9aKgb2aGXEv8gdA

Here is the system in action today after I figured out that, and how, to prime it. BTW. It is toggle switch controlled. And I have imagined a couple of uses for it beyond fuel inspection.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nw39vgpHtwpKyYsV8

All fuel passing through the system looked clean and first stage filter stayed clean and clear. (I don't know the micron level of stage I or stage II filters).

I use the long pvc pipe to reach the absolute bottom of my Monel tank. I rubbed it with pressure on the tank bottom so that I could to see if anything was coating the bottom of my tank. (No build-up found). A narrow sample yet useful. I emptied the tank completely.

Now I know that I have:
1) Clean fuel after the Berryman concentrate soak and agitation.
2) No evidence of tank slime, sand, water or other contamination in my tank.
3) A great baseline for aggressive fuel quality management.

Carburetor Removal, Disassembly, Maintenance, and Reassembly

I am grateful for all the help I had with this effort. It was the right thing to do and will pay dividends beyond this episodic need.

Removal and Disassembly
I have a comprehensive set of carburetor project pictures accumulating in this folder.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6hEzNuvpMshSYB4U6

I will focus on a few lessons learned during removal. I did not have the MMI manual until after my carb was removed.

1) The choke cable pressure bolt is very soft. I nearly split it's head. I won't even attempt with screwdriver in the future just go directly to my 1/4 hand tool and needle nose pliers. I found leaving the released choke cable in place and holding it as the last part to slide the dropped carburetor over helped to keep some tension supporting the carb and solve the puzzle of cable removal.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/E4axkZF1Yq1tJLA18

I noticed that the choke cable stablizer was completely disconnnected from the cable housing.

2) I attempted to gauge and register choke cable fixation point. I would like to have known which components need registration points and which don't. I did find comfort just taking time along the way for registration, not really knowing if it would be useful. This choke cable registration was not especially useful. : )

https://photos.app.goo.gl/E4axkZF1Yq1tJLA18

3) I have had these mini 3" long box wrenches taking up space...not paying their way. Then this beauty helped with the overflow tub fitting. I found taking off the manifold side first and the carb side after remove helpful. Again very soft copper and brass. Time and again patience finding or acquiring the right tool helped me avoid damaging serviceable components.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/E4axkZF1Yq1tJLA18

4) Dropping the carb from its manifold bolts. The amount of fuel that leaked out of the carburetor was surprising. Cannot say enough about draping plenty of pig mat.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5qYUMX1JPYdQUXf49

Notice how the released choke cable is helping to tension the dropped carb in place. This was accidental, and appreciated.

I inspected everything as I disassembled the carb. I used carb cleaner and occasionally a soft nylon bristle brush as I went.

Here are highlights of my findings and some of the maintenance steps taken.

1) Left side float making contact and rubbing with dry float bowl...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7EyAEDPnNfWSxwe16

https://photos.app.goo.gl/RJdqLhbC3JmgFneY9

It sure looks like the float was vibrating against a dry bowl often, especially on the left side. Seems recent given that the flaky finish is still holding onto float. Cleaned. Tested floats in hot water, no leaks. Tiny fleck of loose metal could be heard in float. Checked level of floats while resting on float needle. Balanced and level.

2) Well Vent Jet had dried material and build up around bottom opening. Generous cleaner spraying and delicate single brass brush wire with needle nose plier cleaning.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/FCVaK8jrBg2P2kK9A

3) Main Jet unremarkable (except that washer did not want to release from housing. https://photos.app.goo.gl/MJrYQrxCFmDBMxrh9

4) Idle Jet was covered with buildup around edges, nearly ruined by me, required tool modification using Don's video guidance.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/8deKfYM1sM6Wyo2R6

Jet cleaned up nicely.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/XSnXbJrr4n45U9Dw9

5) Float Valve looked pretty good. The float valve removal required discovering a better tool, I scuffed the valve top once. I needed something flat and at least 1/2" in width. Here is what I found.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/fNpsAt5Worr8TbmP8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/VmxNPQ9GTVZhGtLf6

The Float Needle was caked in yellow grime.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/gESLNUoX1j837TFg6

Cleaned up well. Though I kept as spare, replacing with maintenance kit new valve and needle.

6) The Main Nozzle was almost completely blocked. In fact, I didn't even know it had 3 tiny feed holes until spraying several times.
Before

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WPpN1S9WzXVBnZWR8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hbvK7Ez98Yf63Ar98

After

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dsThoZkg9Aiu3dTz7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aSHm7sS5KhNNTo3Q8

7) Given the lack of fuel to the engine and the slow dripping flow from the Main Passage tunnel and bolt hole during testing....I paid a lot of attention to the Fuel Inlet and passage through to the Float Valve. It was hard to see buildup in the passages yet there was evidence of some buildup simply looking at the pin from the float valve. Lots of carb cleaner sprayed all directions.

8) Gaskets and ethanol varnish. The gasket around the Vent Vent Jet and Main Nozzle stuck the most during removal. Gasket cleaning was done with razor blade, plastic scraper, nylon bristle brush, and a couple of soaks with Permatex Gasket Remover. Best results letting permatex soak for 45 minutes.
Before

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oEcSEkt18dv6u34o7

Final result.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LqMj31GWTnicCoKp7

Finally it was time to do the last cleaning step. I looked into chemical dips, soda blasting, and vapor honing. I went with a chemical dip recommended by several folks who were multiple carb rebuild offenders, Berryman's Chem Dip(accepted that the new formulation is not as potent). Dipped all components except the float for 45minutes. I dipped the upper housing twice.

I think I had the carb clean enough from my hand work to reassemble. That said, thought/advised that a final chemical or mechanical cleaning step would give me even more insurance that the carb and components were in great shape for reassembly and functioning.

I will leave reassembly and reinstall post for another time. I am going to back to a startup test tomorrow.

Welcome any pointers and comments. I will report on startup test tomorrow along with reassembly and reinstall newbie notes.

Grateful. Stay well. Tim

[TimBSmith]

Brief video of my engine running today...

Great results today.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GyDu4Hk1cM6XAr28A

Thankful to everyone here and on my Pearson group that has pitched in to support me to this point in my A4 shakedown efforts.. Excited about next steps..

More to follow.

Stay well, Tim