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  #126   IP: 8.23.83.37
Old 03-03-2021, 01:36 AM
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Words of wisdom or condolences would be most welcome
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1979 Catalina 30 #1497
An old Airline Pilot proverb: "If we don't help each other nobody else will."
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  #127   IP: 100.36.65.17
Old 03-03-2021, 11:12 AM
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Look at it this way: You must be getting really close if Murphy had to resort to such dirty tricks as collapsing a ladder out from under you!

Hang in there, you're almost there!
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  #128   IP: 165.225.20.149
Old 03-03-2021, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by edwardc View Post
Look at it this way: You must be getting really close if Murphy had to resort to such dirty tricks as collapsing a ladder out from under you!
and sadly, you can't even blame the kids (whose shoes we could see) for the ladder, unless they already know how to use a screwdriver for a prank...
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A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:48 PM
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Ye-ouch! Sometime gravity is not your friend.

This this adventure has turn into something like Greek tragedy, and the most recent cause could be from tempting the fates in post #122 (attachment #15685).

*IF* that had been me, having a sparkplug wire loosely draped on the reversing gear cover over water would of had me shortly thereafter calling Ken for another set of sparkplug wires.

With the fates somehow missing that opportunity, they then restored to "Hold my G&T and watch this" moment and then loosened the fasteners for the resulting human gravity experiment.

I would immediately throw something valuable over the side (and curse loudly and with great drama) to appease the them. We need to help stop this vicious cycle. ;^)
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Last edited by ronstory; 03-03-2021 at 07:49 PM. Reason: typos
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  #130   IP: 8.46.75.72
Old 03-03-2021, 09:52 PM
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On the plus side, I just made good on the promise that after all this rebuild work, I'd convert to FWC. Being the Catalina 30 variety, I ordered the new BLDC 60G Indigo FWC kit. It arrived on Monday and I was able to bring all the parts out to the boat on this trip so it's ready for install when I can find the time. I don't think a new thread in the 'Cooling' section of the forum is warranted for this project because FWC installations seem to have been well documented there. A couple observations before I start with the install:
  1. I didn't get out the laser plumb bob, but I think if I had measured real close, I might've just barely had clearance to accommodate the MMI flywheel-driven setup. Especially since I cut in a teak door on the front of the engine compartment to aid in viewing the flywheel/timing setup. I remember hearing rumors somewhere that someone with a C-30 had a flywheel-driven setup? Not that it matters in my case since I've already purchased the Indigo kit but has anyone seen an example of that or is this urban legend?

  2. I realize the heat exchanger needs to be installed with the cap at the highest point in the system but where have most C-30 owners mounted it for 'clean' hose hose routing?

  3. Is the use of ethylene glycol (yellow) still considered the proper coolant for this application?
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An old Airline Pilot proverb: "If we don't help each other nobody else will."
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Old 03-04-2021, 05:20 PM
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Not a C-30 owner, but can provide a recommendation for #3.

I would suggest a propylene glycol version like Sierra (usually can be found in Napa or Wallyworld) or similar. IME it works just as well as the old ethylene version but much less toxic. That way if should even get into the bilge when we are way and the auto bilge pump does it thing... I don't fret about the barnacles.

https://peakauto.com/products/antifr...motive/sierra/
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  #132   IP: 154.21.20.177
Old 11-04-2021, 10:22 PM
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Howdy y'all. Hope everyone's well. I finally found some time to give a quick update. As I mentioned in post #125, it seemed very likely that my cutlass bearing was somehow restricting the rotation of my prop shaft. A haul out was in order. I called the yard where I had previously hauled out in 2017, but they were not accepting DIY customers back "due to COVID." Yet again though, the economics of paying non-DIY yard rates to haul, replace the cutlass, and launch just didn't add up for this old boat. Not to mention the problem of how to get the boat to the yard without an operating motor in the first place. Real chicken-and-the-egg paradox there.

I started to explore the idea of removing the shaft from the boat while in the slip, plugging the stuffing box (obviously) once the shaft was removed, and then replacing the cutlass bearing in situ. I'm no commercial diver and had no interest in doing that myself. Unfortunately, no other commercial divers in the area had any interest either. As it was explained to me, their insurance doesn't cover opening up any holes below the waterline while the boat is in the water. Makes sense, but to be honest, I was surprised to learn they carried insurance in the first place. I just assumed if my boat sank somehow while he was cleaning the bottom and changing zincs, I'd be submitting a claim from mine. Anyway, while explaining my predicament to a fellow boat-owning friend, he offered his electric air compressor dive "hookah" rig and dockside assistance if I wanted to give it a go. With (yet another) FleetWeek fast approaching, and my determination to be out on the water with our family for the airshow, I decided to give it a shot. At the last minute, he got called to work so he dropped of the air compressor rig, gave me a quick how-to, and wished me luck. There I was again doing something I had no business doing, with no prior experience, by myself, with major consequences for failure.

I've gone recreationally scuba diving a couple times in warm, clear, tropical water but I quickly learned that going underwater in a marina in cold, low-visibility water to do underwater work with tools is something totally different. Thankfully I had a 4/3 wetsuit from a failed pre-having-kids attempt at picking up surfing. My slip-neighbor saw my stupid plan unfolding and offered her help to shove the tapered wood bung in the stuffing box from inside the cabin while I went under the boat to remove the shaft and also "make sure I didn't drown." I got in the water and instantly panicked. I couldn't see my hand in front of my face as the cold San Francisco Bay water filled my wetsuit. I was only a couple feet off the dock when I paddled back and grabbed onto the dock finger as fast as I could. My slip-neighbor just stood there laughing to herself "well that was, um, fast" (I could tell the pun was intended) while I continued to over-breathe the dive regulator so hard the air compressor on the dock immediately began to refill the tank that I had just sucked empty with a few breaths. "Give me a minute, its creepy down there!" I yelled back. I kept a hand on the dock and stuck my head underwater while the sediment I had kicked up getting in the water dissipated. After a couple minutes the visibility improved enough where I felt comfortable swimming under the boat to the keel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lXgIrwv5w
(Look closely at :38 seconds in the video and you'll see the ripped cutlass bearing rubber herniated out the front of the bearing)

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1979 Catalina 30 #1497
An old Airline Pilot proverb: "If we don't help each other nobody else will."

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  #133   IP: 165.225.92.153
Old 11-05-2021, 09:44 AM
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funny and well written!

Commercial divers earn every cent of their pay check for sure...
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  #134   IP: 154.21.20.203
Old 12-08-2021, 09:43 PM
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Good evening Moyerverse. In the latest installment....

As inferred from the previous post, my early July amateur attempt at commercial diving astoundingly worked. I was able to pull the shaft/prop combo out of the boat, remove (demolish) the old damaged cutlass bearing, press in a new cutlass bearing using the same tool/technique I had used previously when the boat was out of the water, install a shiny new Indigo winged prop on the shaft, and reinstall the whole shaft/prop assembly without sinking the boat. A-ma-zing. With the self-imposed SF FleetWeek deadline nearing, I franticly attempted to get the boat "bay worthy" to be out on the water for the airshow in early October when my wife wisely put the brakes on the whole thing. As gently as possible, she helped me understand that maybe, just maybe, it wasn't the best idea to have the maiden voyage of our recently repowered vessel be on the busiest weekend of the year in the San Francisco Bay, with two young children who can't swim, two grandparents in their late 70's, and the Captain (me) possessing very little sailing skills. Touché wifey. It started to set in that the dream I had for the past 8 years would elude me for yet another year, and I actually relaxed a little bit. I could now just enjoy the weekend with family and focus on finishing up the final engine work later. I bought airfare and hotel for the whole family, pricey land-side tickets to the airshow, $80 Uber down to the waterfront, only to discover that my kids had absolutely, positively, zero interest in aviation whatsoever. If there were a hand-to-face emoji option I would put it here. This almost decade-long dream I had concocted of our children ooooh-ing and ahhhh-ing as the Blue Angels' F-18's screamed overhead asking me "Daddy do you fly airplanes like those?" evaporated as our daughter fell asleep and our son didn't even bother to look up while he preoccupied himself eating dry Cheerios out of a ziplock bag.

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As we all piled into another $80 Uber back to the hotel (this time a little more tired, buzzed, and ear-ringing than the ride in) I was thankful that we hadn't been on the water all day now facing a 3 hour sail back to the marina with literally hundreds of other boats in close proximity.
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An old Airline Pilot proverb: "If we don't help each other nobody else will."

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  #135   IP: 154.21.20.203
Old 12-08-2021, 10:58 PM
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With the Fleetweek airshow dream-turned-disapointment behind me, I recently began installing the FWC kit that I had purchased from Tom (Indigo) a while ago. As you can see in the picture, I sourced a couple of pieces of that fancy plastic "King Starboard®" and used 3M 5200 to epoxy them into the engine compartment. This provided me with sufficient backing material thickness to screw the fasteners for the heat exchanger and electric pump into without visible nuts or screw heads showing through to the cabin.

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Blue=raw water
Green=coolant
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1979 Catalina 30 #1497
An old Airline Pilot proverb: "If we don't help each other nobody else will."

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  #136   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 12-09-2021, 03:04 PM
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The 5200 worked ok on the starboard?
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  #137   IP: 102.165.16.129
Old 12-09-2021, 03:25 PM
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It did Greg....so far. I was skeptical that it would actually hold given Starboard's inherent non-stickiness. I applied the 5200 very generously on the back as well as the visible bead you can see in the picture along the edge. The 5200 seems to have bridged the little gap created by the fiberglass moulding's texturing. The two pieces that provide the backing for the electric pump and heat exchanger are new with the FWC install. However the piece in the back with the heavy bronze Groco raw water strainer mounted to it is not. I would feel confident recommending the technique since that heavy strainer hasn't budged in years now. The respective parts are attached to the Starboard using stainless steel lag screws.
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1979 Catalina 30 #1497
An old Airline Pilot proverb: "If we don't help each other nobody else will."

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  #138   IP: 69.250.111.245
Old 12-10-2021, 02:26 PM
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LP McQ. That looks great. The "Thatch mod" looks like it was meant to be! What is the PVC pipe assembly adjacent to the HX?!?

One thing I did was totally bypassed the "bypass", and run all my coolant straight into the sideplate, and capped off the t-stat inlet. I did bump my sideplate up to a 1/2" NPT if I recall & 3/4" inlet hose from the FWC pump. I initially did this because I was running an undersized HX with no thermostat and still pushing 180-185°F, and also, I so no reason to run the bypass any longer with closed loop circulation. Since upgrading the HX, I had to put a t-stat back in just to get the engine to 165°F.
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Old 12-10-2021, 05:18 PM
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Just noticed and not sure if I missed reading about this.... no alternator ?

PS. I am SOOOOOOO envious of all the space you have around the engine!
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Old 12-10-2021, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by GregH View Post
Just noticed and not sure if I missed reading about this.... no alternator ?

PS. I am SOOOOOOO envious of all the space you have around the engine!
Greg, it is all the rage...."Staging for pictures"
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:08 PM
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2 warnings:
One - the electric pump you are using is the one Indigo quit selling due to problems with it I think.
Two - it is about 100 times harder than you think to get all the air out of the fresh water circuit with an electric pump. You will want a switch to run it with the rest of the engine turned off and you may want an air bleed or two.
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  #142   IP: 69.250.111.245
Old 12-12-2021, 10:21 PM
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Joe, I am running an electric Johnson CM-30. Not sure if that is the same in Indigo's package anymore or not. That thing moves lots of water (antifreeze), but I have the radiator cap on my HX at the highest point to help with air purging. I have several hundred hours on mine and it is great. I have it turn on with the ignition switch, so (without running it long enough to fry the coil) I can use it for bleeding, etc.
Edit - Joe I agree that if you want to be worried about it, have a separate switch to run the FWC pump outside of the rest of the engine/ignition circuit!! I happen to not need one right now, but I do think about it, if bleeding was a problem for me. I have a C-30 like LP McQ, and my HX is forward of the manifold like his, and thus slightly higher than the manifold.
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Old 12-12-2021, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sastanley View Post
Joe, I am running an electric Johnson CM-30. Not sure if that is the same in Indigo's package anymore or not. That thing moves lots of water (antifreeze), but I happen to have the radiator cap on my HX at the highest point to help with air purging. I have several hundred hours on mine and it is great. I have it turn on with the ignition switch, so (without running it long enough to fry the coil) I can use it for bleeding, etc.
Edit - Joe I agree that if you want to be worried about it, have a separate switch to run the FWC pump outside of the rest of the engine/ignition circuit!! I happen to not need one right now, but I do think about it, if bleeding was a problem for me. I have a C-30 like LP McQ, and my HX is forward of the manifold like his, and thus slightly higher than the manifold.
My setup has a low point between the engine and where the heat exchanger went, so it essentially had TWO high points. I about went nuts with it until I realized I needed to run the pump while bleeding air at the engine and then it was easy-peasy.
If I set it up again I might make a video of the correct flow rate. Having never seen the electric pump in action, I didn't realize at first I was looking at a lot less flow than I should have been. What I should have done was recreate the bleed system from my old mid-engined car from the get-go. It had bleed valves in a couple of places with long clear plastic hose connected to them. If you needed to bleed the car, you unrolled the hoses and held them up while cracking the bleeder valves. This allowed bubbles to percolate out while not spewing antifreeze all over the place. I ended up sticking a bleeder at the thermostat housing exit and between cracking that with a temporary hose held up and having the heat exchanger open, the pump would eventually clear all the air out.
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Old 12-13-2021, 12:44 AM
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Me too
https://www.moyermarineforum.com/for...14&postcount=8

For Jonathan:
Heater hose comes in black and red which I took advantage of when plumbing my FWC system. Antifreeze hoses = black, raw water = red. Easy to follow at a glance.
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Old 12-22-2021, 11:57 PM
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As always, nothing escapes this group's keen eyes. I was reluctant to update the thread with my last post because the picture I used was out-of-date when I posted but I wasn't near the boat to snap a new one. Also, another reason for my trademarked weeks-long delays between posts is that I only have the time to type these up when I'm at work on a long layover. I'm always surprised how much time it takes to resize pictures, crop, type the narrative, etc. Alas, my wife is very supportive of the boat but not very supportive of me spending my precious little time home with the family behind a keyboard talking about the boat. So now this week, coming to you live from a rainy 17 hour layover at the Aloft Hotel in Portland Oregon, let me catch everyone up:

sastanley
Quote:
What is the PVC pipe assembly adjacent to the HX?!?
That's a filter assembly that Tom (Indigo) ships with the electric FWC kit. It contains a magnet and "scrubby pad" that catches all the little bits of remaining block crud during the first few hours of FWC operation. In my picture it's installed in the wrong location. I had misplaced the installation instructions and assumed it needed to be installed there to protect the pump. The proper location for it is in line just prior to the heat exchanger inlet to keep the bits from clogging up the brand new heat exchanger...and then getting to the FWC pump.

GregH
Quote:
Just noticed and not sure if I missed reading about this.... no alternator ?
It's just off for the time being while I "dial in" everything else. I'm just using a jumper from the battery to the coil for the test runs.

joe_db
Quote:
2 warnings:
One - the electric pump you are using is the one Indigo quit selling due to problems with it I think.
You're right joe. Indigo has stopped selling kits with the BLDC pump that I have and reverted to using the Johnson pumps. I've been in frequent contact with Indigo since I bought the FWC kit and they've been very forthright and supportive. Like many of my boat projects, I bought the parts and months went by until I had the time to actually install them. In the meantime, Indigo had discovered that some of the BLDC pumps experienced reliability problems that were difficult to pinpoint to any specific batch of pumps. I spoke with Tom on the phone for almost an hour about the specifics of the BLDC failures. He offered to send me a substitute Johnson pump free-of-charge but given that my BLDC appears to be unaffected by the symptoms of the "bad batch," I thought it unnecessary to condemn a seemingly good pump for now. Between my cockpit temperature gauge and Cole Hersee overtemp alarm, I'm confident if the BLDC pump quits/fails I would be able to catch it before things go sideways.
Quote:
Two - it is about 100 times harder than you think to get all the air out of the fresh water circuit with an electric pump. You will want a switch to run it with the rest of the engine turned off and you may want an air bleed or two.
So far I don't seem to have the same challenge with air purging but to be fair, I haven't run the system too long. There's an air vent on the electric pump so that might help and the HX is mounted in a relatively high position. But most importantly the "don't-leave-the-ignition-on-without-the-engine-running" warning is much appreciated and well taken.

ndutton
Quote:
Heater hose comes in black and red which I took advantage of when plumbing my FWC system. Antifreeze hoses = black, raw water = red. Easy to follow at a glance.
I must've seen a picture (probably of yours) along the way and had actually already done this right after I took that picture. I know I definitely didn't come up with that idea on my own. I kind of went a little Led Tasso opposite (if anyone hasn't yet watched "Ted Lasso" on TV its worth a week of binge watching) from yours with the black hose being the raw water. In my mind, the bay water is black-ish so I did raw water black and coolant red.

Here's the up-to-date picture. I'll explain the disconnected coolant hose and paper towel under the manifold exhaust flange next week. Guess who's going to be pressure testing their manifold when they get back to the boat......

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Merry Christmas everyone!

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  #146   IP: 69.250.111.245
Old 12-25-2021, 11:13 PM
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Thatch mod. Good work. Merry Christmas.
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Old 01-19-2022, 04:10 PM
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A few weeks ago I was doing an operational engine run to get the FWC kit dialed in, adjust throttle linkages etc. I shut the engine down and stopped to have a bite to eat for lunch. When I came back to the engine, I noticed a drip of water coming from the bottom exhaust flange stud threads. I let the engine cool, disconnected the exhaust from the manifold, and several cups worth of water came pouring out of the manifold. I tried to taste it but couldn't tell if it was fresh or salt water. So far, I've only used 100% fresh water in the cooling system so I didn't have the benefit of any glycol colorant to assist in the diagnosis. I don't know if there was any white smoke coming from the exhaust while I was running the engine because I was down the cabin making adjustments. I pulled off the reversing gear cover to find the telltale "milky oil" evidence of water intrusion into the engine...

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I fashioned up this pressure test gauge and pumped it up to 15psi. The pressure dropped at a rate of about 1 psi per 10 minutes:

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If anyone sees a flaw with this pressure test setup I'm all ears but at this point I suspect a cracked manifold. I'm doubly suspicious because this manifold came from my ill-fated spare engine purchase (see post #86) that arrived with other freeze-related damage. It looks like I'll be buying a new manifold. "Hello, Ken.....yep it's Jonathan....yep again."

P.S. I just realized my gross left thumbnail finally made a cameo on this forum. That's what happens when your hand gets slammed in the door of a 1988 Volvo 240DL station wagon at soccer practice as a 6 year old. Bye bye nail bed! Those Swedes sure knew how to make stout door latches. Remember those things?

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  #148   IP: 104.174.83.118
Old 01-19-2022, 06:06 PM
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ndutton ndutton is offline
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Did you pressure test the block independent of the manifold? It's easy enough to do and will provide further critical information. If the manifold is the sole culprit, for water to get into the oil it has to have migrated through one or more of the valves then either through the valve guide or the cylinder, maybe both.

Launch, welcome to the rabbit hole.
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1977 Catalina 30
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 01-19-2022 at 06:08 PM.
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  #149   IP: 24.237.158.251
Old 01-20-2022, 04:04 AM
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Volvo outdrives (the competition)

I brought my newborn baby home in a '78 240. That old car was kind rusty back then in 1994, but a more stalwart friend was never had. I called it the Beige Bullet.

BTW, what you have a photo of is a 740. Not as good a car, in my expert opinion
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  #150   IP: 38.27.109.137
Old 01-20-2022, 08:20 AM
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Good morning, Russ. How's the weather up in Homer these days?

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