MOB .. how hard could it be

[jpian0923]

Water temp average is about 55F in that area, that's freaking too cold for being in the water for that long. Attempt to swim to shore, at least!

[romantic comedy]

Good point Jim.

that is a question. Should they have headed to shore?

They might have been in some serious surf. Maybe rocks? But that water is cold. What to do, what to do.

I think I might have headed for shore. Just as a panic emotion. Like when you run out or air diving. You want the surface, no matter if you are down 100 feet.

[Mo]

All good points guys. I put that video on there because I thought of or considered much the same as you guys came up with. As I played this video yesterday and saw the people on deck I called Melinda over ... "watch this". First thing out of Melinda's mouth is "what are those people doing sitting on deck in that weather"....so she obviously had more sense than the skipper. With harnesses on we would have been watching another video of a knock-down and say " that got their britches in a knot". That one oversight was the biggest mistake...this time, this situation, these conditions, etc etc.

I initially thought they'd put in on the rocks or loose someone overboard when I started watching.

Considerations and brief thoughts:

1. People on deck in rough weather...if they are not doing something keep them in cockpit.

2. No harnesses.

3. Considering entering that small port in bad weather with sea running as it was. Had to see the surf pounding those rocks.

4. Early in video: can see a town across the bay...not sure if it would have been an alternative. Option to stay out or proceed to safer entry. We don't know condition of boat, fuel supply, sailing ability, to really focus on that one.

5. Approaching the entrance from direction he did when he had to see surf and sea direction....that's why there's a pointy end on a boat.

6. Obvious lack of understanding or just plain bad judgement of the skipper on the approach...almost every aspect of what was seen.

7. Fear...a great paralyzer.

8. Fearless...a great aid to getting into more trouble.

9. After the knock down...and that was a real knock down. If he went back out there with just two people on the sailboat he'd have a very difficult time dealing with the situation...in fact I don't think he could have.
-manpower limited
-room limited
-maybe water depth limited with swell...could possibly drive keel up through boat if shallow in areas and come down off a swell.
-swell ...
-windage...a huge issue on that sail boat for stopping right there and pulling off a rescue.
-topsides high on the boat...again windage and difficulty bring people aboard.
-ability to handle the boat itself ... he had better be better at handling the boat than he was coming in.

10. There was no option to get ashore on the far side...it would have been deadly. One head hit and the person is done...I was thinking swim for the shelter the boat was in....likely impossible due to rip tide around that point with the sea running.

11. A tow to a safe pickup point might have been an option but have to consider the adrenalin, tired people in water, maybe hurt, cold etc...basically can they hold on.

12. Lets take a second to talk about the people in the water and what options they had. In case of multiple MOB...try to keep together...yourselves together"
-moral support and encouragement
-can help each other
-easier to see for rescue
-easier to recover for rescue.

13. If he couldn't recover the people he should have stayed on station...but we weren't on the boat, hearing radio traffic etc...

14. Things he did right:
-Once knocked down initial recovery of boat good.
-he didn't kill anyone with the sailboat after the knockdown...Staying away may have been the best decision made after the knock down... He may very well have known he wasn't that good. He, however, needed to stay on station though so he could point their position and that the MOB's knew they were not abandoned.
-he got help (must have called on radio for help).



Be under no illusion that everything would have worked out OK had that small power boat not showed up....without that rescue I think it would have turned deadly.

[Mo]

Neil asked how often do you do a MOB. Mine vary but at least once a month. I never lose a hat without a recovery effort, even when solo...and hats blow off on windy days. We've had many discussions of halyards etc to get an incapacitated MOB back aboard but it all sounds good on paper...it is hard especially when fully clothed and soaking wet. The only other boat that I know do automatic MOB drills is the Canadian Navy's STV Tuna. My buddies run that and they throw a fender in the water anywhere any time. I was at the helm of her last year for the first time and Henry tossed the fender...I said smiling "You SOB, now you can watch it". Unfamiliar boat and under sail, she picked up speed quicker than mine so after the turn she gained speed faster than I expected...was too fast when I rounded up on the fender. Second attempt I ordered sails killed a tad sooner and textbook recovery.

So keep up our MOB skills. Never let a hat go or throw a fender once in a while. Being able to bring the boat back and boat handling are key...if we can't do that we can't pull off the rest. A good idea to teach mom and kids to drive the boat as well. I'll be honest, my wife has no interest in boat handling and if I go over it is what it is. This year Eric is 13 and big enough to see when standing in the cockpit...he will learn to handle the boat this year. He's already pretty good steering while sailing. Aaron, Eric's twin, has autism and doesn't have any of the sailing concept as of yet...maybe it will come.

[Loki9]

There was more info on this incident posted on Sailing Anarchy. A few things reported were:
The skipper was one of those washed into the water.
Those remaining onboard were inexperienced.
The deep water channel is narrow and the area to the left in the video (where those in the water drifted) was shallow.

[ArtJ]

I wonder why the person filming the video ( apparently located to weather)
didn't offer assistance rather than continue filming?

[Mo]

I wonder why the person filming the video ( apparently located to weather)
didn't offer assistance rather than continue filming?

I googled Zumaia, Spain....google maps. Can see the whole layout. The filmer was likey on the road across from the incident. Was looking at the street view version. If those people could have stayed off the rocks there was a sandy beach about 1000 feet to the left.

[Mo]

I humbly remove my hat and bow to the guy driving this one. Pretty much surfed it through the breakwater...and note the rocks!! Just enough room to get her through. Can notice the guy on the bow disconnect his harness as he clears the breakwater.
[YOUTUBE]SY1Ar9BXBOg[/YOUTUBE]

[ArtJ]

Mo

Do you have any film of the Bay of Fundy showing a rough sea and tide?

[Administrator]

Many years ago, when I took the Coast Guard Safe Boating course, they showed us a movie (old even then) which I think was titled "Black Friday." It showed a bunch of boats (some of them small commercial fishing boats) trying to enter Manasquan Inlet on the New Jersey coast. One after another, they hit the jetty, capsized, etc.

It was enough to make you nauseated (not nauseaus ).

Bill

edit: Just found it!

[YOUTUBE]5kZPgHWuuQg[/YOUTUBE]

[Mo]

Mo

Do you have any film of the Bay of Fundy showing a rough sea and tide?

Art,
Haven't been to Bay of Fundy but could do a search. Sailing is supposed to be very tide based there. I know that same tide affects the Marblehead to Halifax race, and depending on the tide, you want to be out on Georges Bank or heading in toward NB. Races have been won and lost with that Bay of Fundy tides...many have been pushed into the bay and others out on Georges Bank when all they wanted to do was shoot across the Gulf of Maine. Steering a tidal vector and timing is the key and those that do it right are in the running to win.

There were surfers in the Bay of Fundy last summer. I don't know enough to comment on the water conditions further up the Bay.

[ArtJ]

MO
Thanks
I believe that the Bay of Fundy has some of the highest tides in the world.
The MacArthur Inchon, Korea landing is often compared to the bay of Fundy tide levels.
I think it is 40 or more feet. I am told that it is because Nova Scotia
and Cape Cod form a Resonant bowl of sorts and the related time
constants accentuate the tides.

Best Regards

Art

[Mo]

This was daunting.

I put a guy in the water once to hook up a MOB...seas were no where near as dramatic. The guy with me was a policeman and his first time on a sailboat. We heard the Maday and went and found the guy. The guy with me put on the Mustang floater suit I have aboard and I used the spinnaker line to winch them back aboard. Being the only one left aboard and winching, needless to say, I found it grueling. He didn't mind going in the water at all and was able to get the halyard around under the guys arms.

Good boat handling on this video...much much more difficult than it looks.

http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/outposts/post/man-overboard-rescued-after-1-5-hours-at-sea/

[joe_db]

I have been out there and we had nothing but calm and light air. The tide CRANKS though. We coud walk to an island over a bar that we went over later that day by boat with 30 feet showing under the keel. There is a breakwater in Lubec that makes an eddy the seals just love. they go round and round and round eating fish while the tide is running.
There used to be a whirlpool that was apparently quite intense, but some kind of dredging or seawall work made it a lot calmer.
This is the sign you read before you walk to the other island:

Art,
Haven't been to Bay of Fundy but could do a search. Sailing is supposed to be very tide based there. I know that same tide affects the Marblehead to Halifax race, and depending on the tide, you want to be out on Georges Bank or heading in toward NB. Races have been won and lost with that Bay of Fundy tides...many have been pushed into the bay and others out on Georges Bank when all they wanted to do was shoot across the Gulf of Maine. Steering a tidal vector and timing is the key and those that do it right are in the running to win.

There were surfers in the Bay of Fundy last summer. I don't know enough to comment on the water conditions further up the Bay.

[Mo]

Hi Joe,
It's about a 40 minute drive for me...I've seen it coming in many times but never been there in a boat. Awesome stuff.