Milky Oil

[manfredhilker]

With the beginning of the 06 season my Atomic sucked in fresh (rain water) while the boat was on the hard...don't even ask how the water can that high in a boat in a cradle... Anyhow, I got the water out, changed the oil 15 - 20 times and the engine runs beautifully. Since then I never though get nice, dirty black oil when changing. Now in the 08 sesason (two winterizings and and ?? 25? oil changes later) I still pump out a milky oil - while the Atomic still runs fine, oil pressure at 40 (never got it higher) and temp at 140. Anyone has a good idea on how to get oil-only?
On another item: if I turn the raw water intake off right after stopping the engine, I can restart ( same day or weeks later) without any problem. If I do not shut the intake off, I have to turn the starter for quite a while in order to get the engine running. With a good starter battery that's not a problem, but I not always have my battery in perfect condition, becuase I forgot to turn somelese off in addition to the intake valve. Any theories on this?
Appreciate any comments! Manfred Hilker

[sunnnnseeeker]

There cound be an internal leak from the cooling passages or cylinder wall that is allowing the water into the oil. When you cut off the water the engine start easily. Possibly you're getting water into a cylinder and when the water valve is closed there is no water so it starts. I suggest you perform a compression check. Hopefully the only problem you have is a bad head gasket. I bad head gasket doesn't explain lots of water in the oil though.

Please let us know what you find.

[SEMIJim]

... if I turn the raw water intake off right after stopping the engine, I can restart ( same day or weeks later) without any problem. If I do not shut the intake off, I have to turn the starter for quite a while in order to get the engine running.

Realize that a water lift muffler requires the engine running to empty it of water. If you crank for too long w/o the engine starting, the water lift muffler will fill up, water will back up to the exhaust manifold, then through the exhaust valves and into your cylinders. Very Bad. Big Trouble.

If our engine doesn't start w/in about 15 seconds of cranking (that's cumulative or all in one go): I shut off the raw water intake until the engine's started to avoid this problem.

With a good starter battery that's not a problem, but I not always have my battery in perfect condition, becuase I forgot to turn somelese off in addition to the intake valve.

I have two suggestions for you: 1. Get a master battery switch installed. Make sure you always turn it off before leaving the boat. 2. No offence intended, but start paying attention to what you're doing.

I've no idea why your oil is milky. Could be any number of reasons. Could it be you've cranked too long repeatedly and keep getting water in that way? (I would think the engine would run very badly, if so.) Otherwise: Blown head gasket is the most usual cause for milky oil.

Jim

[sunnnnseeeker]

Jim,

If a person cranks the engine long enough to pump water in from the exhaust and the water reaches the cylinders I don't think the engine would start after this point (flooded water in the cylinders). That is the mystery here; Manfred says the engine starts after a long period of running the starter. I am very curious what the trouble is. I am thinking that the first thing to make sure is good is the head gasket. Possibly something on the ignition/fuel side causing the hard starting but the water in the oil is bothersome.

I am having trouble imagining someone changing the oil 20 times. That's a lot of oil, especially on an engine where you can't open the drain plug. What's up with that anyhow....One would think by now the oil drain plug would be located in a location (lowest point on oil pan when installed in a boat) where we could use it. Or is this a marine environmentally safety design to reduce the chance of oil spillage?

Nathan

[SEMIJim]

Jim,

If a person cranks the engine long enough to pump water in from the exhaust and the water reaches the cylinders I don't think the engine would start after this point (flooded water in the cylinders).

I dunno. I think that might depend on how much water backed-up into the exhaust manifold. I believe water will start filling #4 and work its way toward the front of the engine?

Still, even if I'm right; ISTM the engine would run very poorly.

That is the mystery here;

There are a couple mysteries, here, not the least of which is: Why does the raw water seacock being open or closed after the engine's shut off affect its starting later?

I am having trouble imagining someone changing the oil 20 times. That's a lot of oil,

60 quarts, at least. At $3/qt. that's $180 in oil. A lot of oil and a lot of money.

especially on an engine where you can't open the drain plug. What's up with that anyhow....One would think by now the oil drain plug would be located in a location (lowest point on oil pan when installed in a boat) where we could use it.

How would you get to it? It's not like a car, truck, etc., where you can just hoist it up or otherwise shove some kind of oil-collection thing under the drain plug.

Besides: Don has made this trivially easy with his oil change kit, located on this page. Couple that with this Moeller Fluid Extractor Kit and you'll have three quarts out of the bottom of an A4s oil pan in less time than it'd take to pull your boat over a hoist, hoist it up, pull the oil plug, drain it, and put the plug back in

I've got the hose that came with the MMI kit led forward to just behind the companionway steps. I've got the mate to the fitting on the end of that fitted to the largest tube that came with the Moeller extraction pump. (Heat it up slightly and you can get fitting in.) I just unscrew the cap on the rubber hose, screw on the plastic tube from the Moeller kit, plug the other end into the pump and away I go.

Jim

[Don Moyer]

Manfred,

Your report is rather convincing that closing the raw water through-hull is somehow assuring you of the ability to start without a lot of cranking. It is less clear to me as to whether or not on those occasions where you do keep the through-hull closed, that your milky oil symptom disappears as well as the hard starting. If this is the case, then the previous advice regarding a leaky head gasket, crack in a water jacket, etc. is right on target. (I'm attaching our guide for pressure testing a block, head and manifold).

If it's the case that the milky oil appears even when hard starting is not a factor, I would recommend inspecting the water pump for a leaky shaft seal before considering any other heavy maintenance (or even a pressure test). On three separate occasions this season, we have had confirmed episodes of milky oil caused by leaky water seals in Oberdorfer and MMI pumps (two Oberdorfer and one MMI). Until these reports, we had always believed that the large weep holes in these brands of pumps would render it virtually impossible for a leaky shaft seal to introduce water into the crankcase; i.e., the water should run out the weep hole and harmlessly into the bilge (harmlessly at least in terms of putting water into the crankcase).

Please let us know how all this turns out.

Don

[manfredhilker]

Thanks Guys!

I appreciate the input and your thoughts on my problem. You sure are correct on the cost for oil over the past two years, but just imagine cost, time and frustration if the engine had seized!
I'll test the water pump first and go from there. It will take me a little bit but I promise to report!
Manfred Hilker