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  #1   IP: 72.237.58.121
Old 10-12-2013, 08:47 PM
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Zirc Fitting on Pump

Ok, I inherited a zirc fitting on my pump. The PO left his grease gun which I think was very old and maybe shot. It did not seem to fit right and I could not tell if it was getting grease to the bearings. So I went out and bought a nice grease gun, that fits tight on the zirc and gets the grease in. Coincidentally or not, at the same time I used this gun, I started to get "depowering" issues. Runs in neutral fine, but when I accelerate to 3-5 knots, it sounds like it wants to stall. Today I pulled the choke out and that momentarily settles it down only to repeat process. I pushed the throttle all the way forward and it did not accelerate or increase RPM. When I barely got back to the mooring I noticed a good amount of grease coming out of a hole on top of the pump. Cleaned it out and a little water would drip out of that hole or whatever it is. I never noticed it before. I ran 160 degrees all summer but noticed a jump to 180 after sing the grease gun. Temp remains steady. I changed my Racor filter and polishing filter before heading out today. The cup on the bottom of the old Racor had a rust color to it with some orangey fine debris. The polishing filter was clear clean gas that came out when removed. Any thoughts on the grease causing any back flow or???
Thanks!
Tom
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  #2   IP: 72.237.58.121
Old 10-12-2013, 09:06 PM
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Or could this be a slight adjustment on the carb running rich/lean. I have not touched it, unless I accidentally nudged it?
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:09 PM
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Question

Are you RWC or FWC?
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:22 PM
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Straight from Lake Champlain which was 60 degrees today.
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Old 10-12-2013, 11:26 PM
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Talking This is a stretch-

-but possible. Grease gets past seal into impeller housing and starts to restrict flow or impeller has broke off some pieces and this impedes flow and even introduces the possibility of a blockage downstream possibly as far as the hose nipple at the aft end of the manifold or the water injection point on the hot section. The ensuing elevated temperature changes the idle mixture requirement. This is only a theory. Good place to begin? Open up the impeller housing plate and have a look-see at the impeller.
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Old 10-13-2013, 09:33 AM
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Thanks Hanley! I'm not so concerned about temp so much. I've done 2 things since the loss of power started. The new grease gun, which definitely gets a lot of grease into the pump and switched to a multi weight diesel oil(after reading here). I don't know if they are related, I'm beginning the process of ruling out.
Thanks!
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Old 10-13-2013, 09:46 AM
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I'm skeptical the pump grease and power loss are related.
Quote:
Today I pulled the choke out and that momentarily settles it down only to repeat process.
Classic indicator of fuel/air mixture problems.

Quote:
When I barely got back to the mooring I noticed a good amount of grease coming out of a hole on top of the pump. Cleaned it out and a little water would drip out of that hole or whatever it is.
Tells me your pump seals and/or shaft are worn.

Quote:
I ran 160 degrees all summer but noticed a jump to 180 after using the grease gun.
That's way high for a raw water cooled engine in 60° water. Time for an acid flush and search for blockages. 100° ~ 120° is the norm.
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Old 10-13-2013, 09:55 AM
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Fuel/air problem. Can you elaborate further.
Thanks ndutton!
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Old 10-13-2013, 09:58 AM
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The pump has been on my to do list since I bought the boat. As well as the acid flush when she gets pulled in a week or so..
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:05 AM
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If applying choke remedies a poor running condition it is an indication of an overly lean mixture. This may be due to a variety of factors such as blockages within the carburetor, float level too low, vacuum leak (even an intentional one - y'know what I'm sayin' without spelling it out with three letters?), fuel delivery problems and more I'm sure.

When was the last time the carburetor was thoroughly cleaned and rebuilt? That would be a good starting place I think.
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:08 AM
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Vacuum leak...what three letters?
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:12 AM
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P...c...v.
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermont30 View Post
Vacuum leak...what three letters?
Aw, now you're getting me into trouble with the disciples. Oh well, never bothered me much before . . . .

It's PCV or the after market Positive Crankcase Ventilation system. It's intended to manage blowby vapors from a worn engine and does so quite well but it's a trade off due to the unmetered and variable air entering the intake after the carburetor and associated tuning difficulties. There are a few here who can tune around it but IMO they are the deft minority.

Other possible performance liabilities with the PCV system are early design with the valve in a horizontal orientation (there's a recent upgrade to resolve this particular problem) and the addition of at least three more areas for intake leaks to develop (one more mounting flange gasket and two vacuum hose connections).
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:07 AM
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The daft minority would agree that for diagnostic purposes where mixture problems are suspected the PCV if so equipped should be disabled by blocking at the manifold end.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
The daft minority would agree . . . . . . .
I want to go on record that I said DEFT, not daft. There's a huge difference in that one letter.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:14 AM
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I was also considering putting in a new carb. It is the original from 1972.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
I want to go on record that I said DEFT, not daft. There's a huge difference in that one letter.
Who loves ya, Neil?
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermont30 View Post
I was also considering putting in a new carb. It is the original from 1972.
In the long run just replacing expensive components can put a dent in your cruising kitty. Consider installing a vacuum gauge and fuel pressure gauge so you can monitor, diagnose and repair stuff. You never did say; do you have the dreaded PCV?
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:43 AM
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I don't have the PCV.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:44 AM
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I'm considering it a rebuild process
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:57 AM
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I don't think of taking a carb apart and putting it back together with new parts as "rebuilding" but rather as normal maintenance. In the age of ethanol and other fuel problems often locally caused we have to be on constant guard. It would be a good idea to order a supply of carb gaskets from Moyer Marine just to have on hand whenever you disassemble. Other carb components are rarely an issue. The really big issue is cleanliness internally. Also I have found the 10 micron "polishing" filter just before the carb to be very valuable. But even without new gaskets you can drain the carb bowl into a clear glass container for a look-see. Because I have a fuel pressure gauge right at the carb, whenever I hear a hiccup my eye goes right to it.
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Old 10-13-2013, 01:27 PM
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Here's another wild theory, but I think it covers all the observations.

You said the new gun pumps in a "good amount of grease". How much is that?? The pump shaft only needs a tiny amount. So here's the pitch:

The shaft & seal appear to be worn. The new grease pump pumps a huge amount of grease past the worn seals and into the coolant. The pump distributes the grease through the engine, clogging some of the smaller passages and causing a rise in temperature. Meanwhile, some of the grease reaches the mixing point in the exhaust hot section, the hot exhaust cooks it, and it starts restricting the exhaust, causing loss of power.

I suppose the way to check for this is to try your grease pump with the cover off the water pump. If enough grease to cause problems is getting in, you should easily be able to see it.

A quick test run of the engine with the hot-section disconnected from the manifold (be prepared for noise and a wet mess) will tell if enough exhaust restriction is present to cause power loss.

The whole thing sounds pretty far-fetched to me, but I'm always suspicious of coincidences, and the problems started with the use of the new grease pump.
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Old 10-13-2013, 03:14 PM
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This is what I was initially getting at. The pumped has dripped since i bought the boat, and the rate has definitely increased to almost constant. I am getting the greaseless pump, maybe this week. I have tried the grease pump onto a paper towel and it let's go about a 4 inch by, say, 1/4 inch wide, bit of grease. I also notice what I would say is a small oil slick from the exhaust into the lake. Also, it has done it on occasion, a vapour or white smoke combined with the grease. On the mooring, in neutral, I increased the throttle and the vapour or smoke increased. I have not noticed any increase or decrease in output of water through exhaust.
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Old 10-13-2013, 03:53 PM
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If it is a carb issue, would it run fine in neutral and when I increase throttle the engine revs accordingly. When in forward cruising yesterday, I could throttle all the way forward with hardly any power and no increase in revs.
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Old 10-13-2013, 03:58 PM
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Have you visited your prop recently?
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