#51
IP: 24.152.131.153
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You're entitled to your opinion Joe.
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#52
IP: 70.91.159.33
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Interresting..
I can certainly appreciate respecting the forum and it's provider however, JDB makes an excellent point.
My opinion (of which I am also entitled) is that this forum is here specifically for help and advice to promote the continued service and performance of the A4 engine. I appreciate that MM is a business and happily support that business however possible, both as a patron and an extremely satisfied customer who has nothing but good things to say about them. As the OP of this thread, my intention was to gain the benefit of the experience of others who have already invested in this brand of propeller before I make my own purchase. I certainly wasn't trying to "pitch it",, get it?..."pitch"
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Mike, Slower-Lower Eastern shore, MD 1973 Pearson 33 1967 Bristol 27 |
#53
IP: 75.67.155.224
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We hit a mooring and lost a blade from our CDI plastic prop a few years ago. We motored home about 14 miles across Buzzards Bay without much trouble. In fact, there was not much vibration and we motored at about 60% efficiency. Amazing. DCI sent us a new one at 50% cost.
We have the CDI as our backup now since we have been sailing in Maine more, and are afraid of losing a blade to one of the gazillion lobster pots there. We have an early bronze Indigo on the boat as our primary and are happy with it. I think we lose half a knot compared with hiding a two bladed prop behind the skeg when sailing. Also, our rpms with the indigo are a bit higher than with the indigo. We cruise at 1900 to 2000 with not much noise, and can get 2500 out under adverse conditions. Bill and Jeanne T34C #453 Otter |
#54
IP: 24.188.38.160
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I'm not sure what to make of the Indigo v MMI debate.
I may be naive, but it seems to me that MMI (I have had significant discussions with Don and Ken for various reasons) represents the very best in honesty, integrity, and customer service. While I sincerely hope they are successful financially, I believe without reservation that they are not at all greedy. They run a business that appears to recognize that there is enough to go around, especially if you "do the right thing". I was just telling my son yesterday that I would gladly pay a little extra to support MMI and this forum based upon the generosity displayed by all, including all of you. While I don't think this forum should go out of its way to promote other businesses, I do think that any relevant topic or product A4 related is fair game for discussion. Having said that, I know where my loyalty lies. Chris |
#55
IP: 68.56.139.11
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Don et al are smart people. This forum helps keep the Atomic Going, which keeps MMI going. I see it as that simple.
I see a lot of guys here, trying to find cheaper ways to get things fixed. SOme are successful. Many discussions here involve buying stuff at HD or other vendors. It is all part of the business. If we want to call it that, LOL. There are guys that will buy something that is 3 percent cheaper, from someone other then MMI. I dont get why they would do that. But they do. Also I have found that MMI prices are quite compettive. the quality is always tops, and comes with Don enclosed. I will continue to support MMI. All hail Don, all hail Don, all hail Don........... |
#56
IP: 96.229.18.9
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Respect
I have the opinion that the site is provided and maintained for all things A-4 and pretty much boating too. Once a site like this is presented it is going to expose more than just the provider and their "stuff". The fact that these other manufacturers are mentioned is something to be expected and respected by us the users. Keeping the A-4 alive and well takes the efforts of all who mfg. and/or supply parts.
Don and MMI have provided a site that is intended to discuss all things A-4 and this would include competition to a certain extent, that being our discussing it. These discussions have made this site the best thing A-4 and also probably one of the best "small boat anything" sites there is. It is up to us the users to show respect to the host and discuss things in a factual manner and not just to rant like a fool! All hail Don Dave Neptune |
#57
IP: 24.152.131.153
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I'm all for A-4 discussions but fool or not, if another business is going to be chatted up for 38 posts I'll have no part of it. It's where my respect leads me.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#58
IP: 199.173.226.236
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If Moyer sold a competing product you might have a point. This is kind of like fighting over a Goodyear vs. Dunlop tire discussion on a Porsche forum and forgetting that Porsche does not make tires and thus is not losing money if people are convinced to buy one or the other. Also note the MOYER admin(s) started a thread about Ipads if memory serves
We also routinely have people selling A4s and A4 parts on here, which DOES compete with Moyer and they seem cool with that to the extent they created a classified section. Last edited by joe_db; 05-09-2013 at 09:57 AM. |
#59
IP: 128.177.72.199
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I believe it is fair to say that we go to great lengths to leave the conversations unfettered, even in those increasingly frequent occasions when the points made in individual posts are nonsensical from a technical perspective. At most, we usually add a "buyer beware" comment and leave it to our members to recognize when someone is trying to convince them that water runs uphill. For those who frequent the forum, a number of examples should quickly come to mind. This can make for some lengthy and occasionally testy threads, but the cream usually floats to the top.
Moyer Marine and Indigo are competitors, at least in my mind. We do not compete with Indigo in every niche of the markets we pursue, but there are surely obvious overlaps. How this affects the appropriateness of any individual post is, for the moment at least, left to the individual's good judgment and sense of propriety, I guess. I think most of you would agree that some posts, and a few posters, have gone way over the line at times. Bill |
#60
IP: 71.118.13.238
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T h t n o t h
Well said Bill.
Allow me to thank you and the rest at MMI for what you have provided for those who participate and gleen advise here. All hail Bill All hail Don All hail MMI _/) _/) Fair Winds and the A-4 always ticking when we need it. Dave Neptune |
#61
IP: 70.91.159.33
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In closing, for now...
I'd like to say thanks to everyone who provided comments and feedback to my inquiry.
That being said, I have made a prop purchase, and even received a special discount. Thanks TS, Thanks MM for an awesome forum and everyone else (you too Niel) for the great feedback. Best regards to all!
__________________
Mike, Slower-Lower Eastern shore, MD 1973 Pearson 33 1967 Bristol 27 |
#62
IP: 71.118.13.238
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Go 4 it
Hey Bold, let us know how it works for you. Like I have said I do indeed love mine and I do think I am now faster with than my 3 blde phrf rating.
I am going to have mine repitched after this season unless I get a window to do it sooner. Good luck with it. Dave Neptune |
#63
IP: 98.237.173.224
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New Indigo Prop
Have installed the new Indigo 7.7 prop. Better performance than the 7.4
I had on for 7 years. Improved push and less vibration. Hull speed at 1500 rpm. E 27 sailboat.. Very much pleased with the upgrade..C Trembanis |
#64
IP: 107.217.19.227
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"More Propwash"
All, Since the dust, or rather the propwash seems to have settled a little on this subject, I feel that the time might be right to give my input. Like many others, I started with the standard 12x7-2 blade on my Catalina 30. Wanting to increase my RPM's to a more desireable range of close to 2000, I purchased the Indigo 3 blade. Initially, I felt that it was an improvement, with an increase in RPM's and very smoothe overall performance. Over time I did seem to feel that reverse was not quite as effective as with the 2 blade and I also felt that I was experiencing slightly more propwalk. On a lark, and partly because Catalina had seen fit to use the same 2-blade on their 27's as their 30's, I decided to cut down my original 2-blade 1" and give it a try. The results were actually shocking. I now have a prop that puts my engine in the correct RPM range, has less prop walk and has a more effective reverse. I won't even begin to try to explain why this worked so well, but needless to say I am quite content with the current setup. In all fairness to Indigo, I have not had to "push" my boat in heavy seas with my new 2-blade, so I can't testify as to it's ability in those conditions. To conclude, I have a couple of other A4's, one of which will most likely see duty in a boat similar to Daniel's power skiff, which should be a good match for the Indigo 3-blade.
Tom |
#65
IP: 108.48.211.14
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Thatch,
You cut down what? The 12 x 7 to an 11 x 7?
__________________
-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) |
#66
IP: 24.152.131.153
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What was the technique/tooling you used to do it to keep it all symmetrical and balanced? Do you have a lathe?
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#67
IP: 107.217.19.227
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Shawn and Neil,
Having a bunch of "leftover" parts from years of boatbuilding projects made this prop cutting easier. After "Dykeming" (blue dye) marking the ends of the prop I mounted it onto a spare 1" propshaft and then ran the shaft through a spare strut and then through an old stuffing box. This assembly was then bolted to a table allowing me to rotate and scribe the prop ends. After cutting on the cut lines I radiused the leading and following corners to an "almost" similar shape of the original ends. Ballancing involved attaching the propshaft to a small 1725 RPM electric motor via hoses and clamps and then Reading the ripples in a glass of water sitting on the table as the prop spun. I ran accross this ballancing method many years ago while trying to ballance a clutch in an old pickup truck. Quite accidentally I noticed that the ripples in a cup of coffee sitting on the floor of the truck decreased or increased as I added or took away "ballancing" washers installed on the pressure plate bolts. Cheap but very effictive..... I knew that my methods would raise some eyebrows. Tom |
#68
IP: 108.48.211.14
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No eyebrows raised here...if it works, it works!
Fabulous process.
__________________
-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) |
#69
IP: 76.103.245.239
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I Completely agree with Joe.
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#70
IP: 76.122.168.101
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Tom that balancing is nicely done. But water? Wouldn't rum have provided a more nautical taste to the process?
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#71
IP: 172.8.28.89
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"Out of ballance operator"?
Mike, Probably not a good idea to have a spinning prop, a glass of rum and me in close proximity.
Tom |
#72
IP: 199.173.224.32
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Wow - cool idea. You may find - if you have a way to do back-to-back testing, the three blade is faster bashing to weather and the 2 blade is faster in calm water. I think the Indigo can cavitate in reverse. I actually just noticed this recently - you do better starting out with part throttle in reverse and easing the power in. YMMV.
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#73
IP: 71.118.13.238
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Old school Tom
Tom, balanced many ah rotating parts in my day via the extra washer and then see~repeat until satisfied. My wife wondered WTH I was doing with pieces of scotch tape and some coins because her ceiling fan was shaking. Done quite a few RC helos same way.
I do like the water trick and will certainly try it. A long time ago I made a pitch gage which was a PIA to work, however I did rig it to mount a scribe for doing diameters. I have done many a prop that was to big for my 14" lathe, so I did the work on a pedastal grinder and a magna visor. I also played with blade shapes and area this way. Anything up to 14" I could coax into balance on the lathe between centers and for the larger ones I'd mount it to an old Logan horizontal mill and watch the oil shaking in the ways to coax to balance. With patience one can balance almost anything!!! Dave Neptune |
#74
IP: 198.182.9.1
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Indigo prop cavitation?
Joe_db,
I have also wondered about cavitation of the Indigo prop in reverse. After tightening up the brake band in the reversing gear and ensuring that reverse is actually engaged and not slipping, I have found that reverse at high RPM is amazingly ineffective. It does get a rise out of anyone on the dock though Mike |
#75
IP: 172.8.28.89
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Dave, I have also used the "coin taped to the fan blade trick". My wife likes this "fix" because she knows that I have to "dust" the fan first.
Joe and Mikey, Thank's for confirming my thoughts about the Indigo's odd reverse tendancies. I was reluctant to get too heavy handed with my comments but I firmly believe that my 2 blade slows and backs up the boat better. Tom |
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