#1
IP: 108.60.227.62
|
||||
|
||||
Oil Pressure Dropping
Hey all, thanks for all your help with my starter/solenoid. Now I got a new one for you.
This has been a consistent theme since I have owned the engine. I have an early model A4 that is pretty basic. I have new oil pressure sending unit and a new gauge. When I start engine and "cruise" at roughly 2000 RPMs I get good oil pressure, about 40PSI. My engine temp holds steady at 130F. Over the course of an hour cruising, my oil pressure will drop to abot 20PSI and hold there. I use 40 weight (its all i can find in the bahamas). I have tried tightening the oil pressure needle a turn, and then another, and still no change. It does HOLD at 20 PSI though. I check for a leak at the gauge, the pipe, nothing. I get that the oil thins out as it heats up, but a loss of 20PSI?? Any other thoughts or suggestions? Also, I change my oil very regularly. about once every 30 hours. I know that sounds like overkill, but what the heck. IF After about an hour of motoring, when I let the oil cool, the oil will be black. Don mentioned possible gas in the oil, but I dont smell gas. ANy thoughts on either would be great. Thanks!
__________________
"Sailor looking for wife. Must have boat. Please send picture of boat." Jason // SV Chance http://www.facebook.com/SailingChance |
#2
IP: 24.224.152.244
|
||||
|
||||
suggestion
Next oil change go to 15w40 diesel and see what happens. 20 psi is OK if that's the actual pressure...sounds like it is.
-Is your engine freshwater cooled or raw water cooled? -Is your temp gauge functioning properly...if someone has a infra red thermometer around you there you could get a pretty good idea of what it's doing. -If you rev the engine does your oil pressure jump upwards, downwards, or stay put. With engine warmed up....If it rises with rpm, that's a good thing; falling means bearings on the way out; staying put pretty much means may be wear but maintaining oil pressure.
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. |
#3
IP: 128.183.140.38
|
||||
|
||||
Ths is pretty typical behavior. I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Don's guidlines are at least 10 psi for every 1000 rpm, so you look to be fine. The switch to 15w40 oil may help some, and carries a couple of other benefits:
I've been running it for the last year.
__________________
@(^.^)@ Ed 1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita" with rebuilt Atomic-4 |
#4
IP: 12.219.49.130
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#5
IP: 108.60.227.47
|
||||
|
||||
Good thoughts
Quote:
__________________
"Sailor looking for wife. Must have boat. Please send picture of boat." Jason // SV Chance http://www.facebook.com/SailingChance |
#6
IP: 24.224.152.244
|
||||
|
||||
It will run like a dream on 15w40. Been using it since 2007 without a hitch. Like you I change my oil frequently as well ...typically between 20-25 hrs. After a few oil changes the oil will look pretty clean come change time as well. If you had the rpm up for a bit and it holds at 20 that seems to be pretty much where it is set. 40 at start up is good. Mine has 40 at start up and about 30 psi when running for a while...either way, you have lots of oils pressure there.
You can see next oil change if there's a difference in 15w40. Right now I wouldn't be worrying too much about it unless it somehow changed from something you are used to looking at.
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. Last edited by Mo; 04-24-2014 at 02:46 PM. |
#7
IP: 108.60.227.7
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
It may be my mistake, but I thought gas engines couldn't run on "diesel oil". In know you said it, and kinda said it again, I just want to make EXTRA sure I understood. I am hitting the only NAPA on Eleuthera in about an hour (Rock Sound) and will be buying, amongst other thing, more motor oil. Thanks again, and sorry I am such a ninny
__________________
"Sailor looking for wife. Must have boat. Please send picture of boat." Jason // SV Chance http://www.facebook.com/SailingChance |
#8
IP: 128.183.140.38
|
||||
|
||||
Although it's known as "Diesel Oil" because of it's wide use in diesel engines, if you read the certs on the bottle, it's certified for both gas and diesel engines.
__________________
@(^.^)@ Ed 1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita" with rebuilt Atomic-4 |
#9
IP: 108.60.227.44
|
||||
|
||||
Thanks!
Thanks Ed/Mo!!! I will give it a shot when I hit the NAPA.
__________________
"Sailor looking for wife. Must have boat. Please send picture of boat." Jason // SV Chance http://www.facebook.com/SailingChance |
#10
IP: 24.224.152.244
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
You will become a believer....
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. |
#11
IP: 174.94.32.231
|
||||
|
||||
I think the guys are referring to Shell Rotella oil - 15/40...designed to withstand the rigors of diesel engine use but works well in the Atomic 4.
|
#12
IP: 24.224.152.244
|
||||
|
||||
We sure are 15w40. I'll take anything (although not a Castrol or QuakerState fan). Mobile, Shell, Havoline, etc.
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. |
#13
IP: 76.7.151.31
|
||||
|
||||
SC. With your early model you also should have the cone shaped oil pressure adjustment. Have you removed and dressed the the oil pressure adjustment. I have gone thru this, what you describe, several times with my early. Seems to hit immediately after an oil change. Why???.
Have you tried adjusting the oil pressure. If it does not change then you need to dress. A slight turn, 1/4 turn, on the adjustment will, if working properly, make a noticeable change in oil pressure. Say 3 to 4 PSI. Dressing can be as simple as GENTLY inserting and turning a Phillips head screwdriver of the right size. MMI has a tool for this. Dan S/V Marian Claire |
#14
IP: 108.60.227.13
|
||||
|
||||
Now an even bigger oil problem
I dont know if this should be it's own post - probably, but I will start here since I have your attention.
I was writing and commenting on this post while motoring for about 6 hours. Now, two days ago, after motoring for 6 hours, I checked the oil and the dipstick was dry. I mean bone dry - and my bilge was filled with oil. Don mentioned the only leak that could cause that is tha the oil pressure gauge, which had never leaked begore but sure enough I found a crack in the 1/8NPT pipe sticking out. It broke off when I removed it, but I did replace it successfully. New pipe, sender reinstalled, new oil added, problem solved right? Well, while asking about oil, after about 5 hours of motoring I happened to look down and my oil pressure was ZERO!!!!! I immediately shut off the engine. It hadn't been running funny. Sounded okay. BUT... I checked the bilge, found more oil. Dip stick was dry again. I opened the reversing gear cover and there was still SOME oil in there, but not much. I added 2 quarts to get me to a place I could anchor, started the engine and had 20 PSI. I anchored and killed the engine. I am searching like crazy for an oil leak that could do this. I have one leak I know about - the reversing gear cover weeps oil, but it wouldnt weep 4 quarts in 5 hours. The oil pressure pipe seemed fine. Where else could this be leaking this much oil from??? I've had nothing but issues with this engine. Mostly minor, mostly easy fixes, but this is not minor. and I am really concerned (especially since I am in the Bahamas). Thanks
__________________
"Sailor looking for wife. Must have boat. Please send picture of boat." Jason // SV Chance http://www.facebook.com/SailingChance |
#15
IP: 24.224.152.244
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
So, I think you can safely count one quart used and perhaps another beat out around the reversing gear cover. A silicone seal around that cover will seal it until you get a gasket. Clean it up, put the silicone (grey, blue,or orange) on it and leave it for about 15 minutes. Then place top on and hand tighten all screws. A few hours later you can snug the bolts down and then it should be OK. I would be thinking maybe 2 sources of loss for the oil. Oil is like blood...a little goes a long way and often looks worse than it is. BTW...what was your cruising oil pressure (engine warm) before this happened. That would be 2 episodes of running low on oil...no telling what was starved for a time. Rings could wear a bit, bearings, top end....put the heavier oil in and see how it works. It's possible the bearing took a bit of a wearing and rings as well. Bearing wear would drop your pressure and ring wear would make the boat use more than usual. With this in mind, I think you should move up to 15w40, try and adjustment on the adjuster, fix the cover Religiously keep an eye on the oil level. I'd be shutting down and checking every hour until you know where you sit with it. Main thing is not to get too excited over it 1. There was some oil and 2. the engine didn't seize. These are tough little beasts.
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. Last edited by Mo; 04-24-2014 at 10:21 PM. |
#16
IP: 173.66.236.200
|
||||
|
||||
There's only a limited number of places that could leak that much oil.
One, (the pressure sender port), you've already found. Others I can think of are
Any chance you could clean & dry your bilge, spread some talcum powder, run the engine for an hour, and look for trails in the talc?
__________________
@(^.^)@ Ed 1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita" with rebuilt Atomic-4 |
#17
IP: 108.60.227.35
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I will check all those areas. Could the rear seal actally leak that much oil? i did replace the gaskets recently - meaning it was messed with. i dont even know what I could do if it was the rear seal, except disassemble and try and fudge new gaskets. I'm really hoping its one of the other things. lol
__________________
"Sailor looking for wife. Must have boat. Please send picture of boat." Jason // SV Chance http://www.facebook.com/SailingChance |
#18
IP: 24.224.152.244
|
||||
|
||||
You will get it.
If you put a new gasket on the cover recently it should be good. Generally we can reuse the same one there time after time without any problem. If you can manage to pick up some engine cleaner go for it.
Pick up 2 jugs (4 quarts each) of 15w40 as well. I'm convinced she's using so there'll be some left in one after the oil change. You will have what's left of number 1 jug and the second for top-ups as required. After a few days running like you described you will see where you are with it and will know the intervals to check and add oil. You mentioned you have the old style engine...is there any chance oil is getting up through the oil filler hatch located near the back of that? Rear seal...yes a rear seal can leak a considerable amount of oil over time cruising...also look for tracking on the engine compartment where oil spatter would be slung. Expect to see consumption drop when you move to 15w40.
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. Last edited by Mo; 04-24-2014 at 10:47 PM. |
#19
IP: 108.60.227.10
|
||||
|
||||
Feeling a little better....
Quote:
I have some food for thoght and will keep this post updated tomororw when I have cleaned things up and added oil. I think I will have to take her out and run her under load to see what is going on. Thanks Mo.
__________________
"Sailor looking for wife. Must have boat. Please send picture of boat." Jason // SV Chance http://www.facebook.com/SailingChance |
#20
IP: 24.224.152.244
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. Last edited by Mo; 04-24-2014 at 11:10 PM. |
#21
IP: 108.60.227.60
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
That said, I do have a weeping leak there. I have cut new cork gaskets. My reversing gear cover has cracks at the screw holes and is a little warped. I am going to try 2 gaskets. Is there a reason at all that I should cut out the center of the gasket? The reversing gear doesnt need it for clearance. It seems to me it would be more effective if it were one piece across the cover (matching the plate)
__________________
"Sailor looking for wife. Must have boat. Please send picture of boat." Jason // SV Chance http://www.facebook.com/SailingChance |
#22
IP: 24.224.152.244
|
||||
|
||||
OK, if the cover is warped a silicone gasket might be the answer. Remove the cork and clean it up with a scraper. Wipe all oil away with a towel or something along those lines.
Next put a bead around on the reversing gear and let it sit for 1/2 hour. Place the plate on the reversing gear after that but don't push down. Genltly start the bolts but don't turn them in and draw the plate down. Allow to sit like that overnight then remove each bolt one by one and put some silicone or locktite on the bolts ...then snug them all in a criss cross pattern. The silicone should make up for any cracks or warp....worth a try. That said "weeping" doesn't sound like it's pouring oil out there. Have a look near where the shaft and reversing gear meet at the coupling. Look around there and see if oil is on the adjacent bulkheads as it got flicked off by the turning shaft. If you don't see that a major leak at the coupling is not likely.
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. |
#23
IP: 24.152.131.153
|
||||
|
||||
I hate what I'm thinking
Jason,
Is there any chance the bilge water is high enough for the engine pan to be sitting in it? For a long time? Like years?
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#24
IP: 108.60.227.15
|
||||
|
||||
No, I have bilge pumps out the wazoo. It has not risen that high.
__________________
"Sailor looking for wife. Must have boat. Please send picture of boat." Jason // SV Chance http://www.facebook.com/SailingChance |
#25
IP: 108.60.227.31
|
||||
|
||||
Thank you!!!
So, I went through all the possible areas oil could be leaking. I tightened the oil pressure screw 1.5 more complete turns. Checked the oil pressure pipe, sender, the oil fill under the mech fuel pump, reversing gear cover ( made new gasket).I also changed oil to 15W40 as suggested.
I put oil cloths down whereever I thought there might be a leak, and baby powder along the edges of the oil pan gaskets. I ran the engine today for about an hour in the anchorage, under load going back and forth at about 1900 RPM. Oil pressure started at 40PSI which is normal. It hung around 35 PSI much longer than normal, before settling down to 20 PSI after about 45 minutes of operation. This is where she usually holds. I checked the engine every 5 minutes, looking for the oil leak that has been dumping 3.5qts into my bilge every 5 hours. I only found a very minute (1/4 teaspoon) of a weep in a spot where the reversing gear housing meets the oil pan. it was pretty high up near the fuel pump though so it cold be just some heated residue that i didnt clean up. Regardless... it wasn't the culprit. I dont know if that means that the failure point required longer operation, or if it means I fixed the problem. Only time will tell. When I checked the oil, I had the same I amount I started with. So that's good. It was blacker than I'd like, but I'll take. I am heading out on a 100mile crossing tomorrow and will likely have to motor a bit. I will let you all know how it goes under longer operation. But so far so good.
__________________
"Sailor looking for wife. Must have boat. Please send picture of boat." Jason // SV Chance http://www.facebook.com/SailingChance |
Tags |
black oil, dirty oil, oil change, oil pressure |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Oil Pressure Adjustment | Jesse Delanoy | General Maintenance | 59 | 07-24-2010 09:14 PM |
Elevated Exhaust Back Pressure | 76oDay | Exhaust System | 9 | 04-19-2010 08:13 AM |
Information about information and oil pressure issues | Don Moyer | Announcements | 0 | 04-14-2009 08:30 AM |
Oil Pressure / Rear oil seal - Next step | Mark Harrington | Drive Train / Propellers | 6 | 11-24-2008 08:51 AM |
Carburetor Internal Pressure Regulation | Don Moyer | Fuel System | 2 | 04-12-2005 09:30 AM |