Can I use a portable fuel tank ... for now?

[P30]

Greetings all, what a great forum.

We recently became the proud owners of a 1976 P30 and are trying to learn to love our A4. Although the PO has been incommunicando (we bought from a broker), she seems to have been well taken care of; elect ignition, Racor, secondary filter, elect fuel pump, new exhaust, etc.

She started right up, sailed beautifully to her new home (GIYS) and then purred all the way down to and (almost) all of the way back from St Mikes on a recent windless weekend.

The almost part is where things went south on our northern leg. She starved herself ... ok, I starved her ... of fuel and I suspect it is because I let her run down to the last couple of gallons in the tank.

I drained the Racor bowl and it looked pretty bad. I have ordered new filters, manual, etc from MMI and plan to go to work on cleaning out the tank but would like to take my time with that as my available time on the boat is a bit limited and we don't want to miss too much of fall, our best sailing season on the bay. BTW, I read on another forum where flushing the tank with varnish remover, after leaving it in a few days, helps (?).

I'd really just like to know if I can get by with replacing the filters and jury rigging a plastic outboard tank (to be temporarily mounted in the sail locker) as I spend time either cleaning out or (gulp) replacing the old tank. Any thoughts/suggestions/experience in this regard?

Sorry to be so wordy while painting this picture ... on my 3rd cup of coffee and feel a lot of angst, I guess.

Thx much,
P30

[sastanley]

P30 - Sure..lots of folks often use an outboard tank as a way to diagnose a bad fuel system (i.e. eliminating or confirming the boat's fuel system as a potential problem). One thing I'd recommend is to still have a fuel shut-off valve in the mix somewhere (typically on top of the boat's tank pick-up tube)...otherwise the only thing holding the fuel back is the float valve in the carb.

I'll be down at an old boat tomorrow donated to the local Scout troop & helping a buddy try to get the old A4 running..We'll be using an outboard tank since we have zero idea of the condition of the liquid in the fuel tank.

There are lots of tank cleaning threads around here so make sure you check them out!

FYI - A typical A4 burns about .75-1 gallon per hour..although with an adjustable jet, some long-distance cruisers have thinned consumption down even further.

Welcome to the A4 fraternity.

[smosher]

fwiw, I have a 74 P30 and I have been down to 3 gallons without an issue.

The fuel tank is made of Monel and should be ok,

I would pump out the rest of the tank, see what the gas looks like, and put new filters in. You don't need to put in varnish remover as the ethanol is already doing that for you

Steve

[domenic]

If your tank is fiberglass,take a look inside to see if the bottom looks like black sand. If so the ethanol has eaten the fiberglass. check the bottom of the tank for leaks. If you see black sand looking (FG) in the bottom of the tank...your fuel system is also dirty...fuel lines, pump, and carb.

[ndutton]

I'd really just like to know if I can get by with replacing the filters and jury rigging a plastic outboard tank (to be temporarily mounted in the sail locker) as I spend time either cleaning out or (gulp) replacing the old tank. Any thoughts/suggestions/experience in this regard?

NO!!
(emphasis for your safety)

Here's why
You were good up until putting it in a sail locker. Outboard tanks are vented at the fill cap and you cannot, must not vent your fuel supply inside the boat. It's a dangerous arrangement.

The same thing goes for locating the portable tank in the cockpit. The heavier than air fumes will cascade into the cabin via the companionway rather than over the side. It's a misconception the cockpit is open air. It ain't.

[hanleyclifford]

This is how you meet Neil's very practical objection. Note the removable vent coupling arrangement. Sorry, actual vent line had not yet been installed in this picture.

[sastanley]

Of course, Neil's right..from a safety perspective...whatever you do, you must remember that gas fumes are heavier than air. If they are anywhere in the boat, they will work their way into the bilge. Lockers & such in boats are generally NOT sealed from the rest of the boat..many even have small drain holes to allow water to run to the bilge...this is a perfect path for gasoline fumes as well.

There is a very important reason that you close the boat up completely when you fill your tank (so the fumes don't scoot along the cockpit, in thru the companionway and head to the bilge). And then #2, run the blower for several minutes before each start to make sure the fumes are evacuated.

So..you must have a safe way to have the can aboard so that fumes don't make their way to the bilge.

[hanleyclifford]

Excellent discussion Shawn, and that is why everthing must be vented overboard. In picture from right to left, fuel tank vent, water tank vent, battery box vent (hose above exhaust is for excess raw water by pass of water lock).

[lat 64]

serendipity safety

Ya'll might get a kick out of this:
I used to own a Catalina 22. Down in the lazarette, there is a molded-in shape in the floor to fit the old-style outboard motor gas cans. That's where all the P.O.s had kept the gas tank. It was factory!
I never thought much about the safety issue then, but I hated the stink. I mounted a salvaged swim step on the transom and then strapped the plastic gas tank out on it. The water splashed a bit on the tank, but it was OK and the boat was much nicer to sleep in.
Not till I moved up to a bigger boat did I get phobic and preoccupied with fire safety.

Always a good topic to bump,

Russ
Another issue is the two-stroke oil getting on the cockpit floor. We had that floor awash in fish and blood the day of the photo. It looked like a gun deck at Traflagar. The oil would've tainted the fish. Remember, Some of us don't like petroleum products in our fish 'round here.

[ndutton]

I also had a Catalina 22, hull #51 and had the below decks fuel storage Russ mentioned. I not only kept my metal fuel tank in there but wiggled in the outboard when not in use. WOW!!

Nice hat Russ.

[lat 64]

That's my MOTHER with the hat. I gonna tell her you said that. Boy are you in trouble!

That was three years ago. She was 82 and still reeling in the most Cohos of all of us. I'm still afraid or her.

[sastanley]

be extra careful..

So, quick sidebar...

I went down to Pt. Lookout Marina today to help an old friend with an Atomic 4 in a Sabre 28. This is the motor I've been talking about in the "someone thinks I know something" thread.

They had an outboard tank, hooked up, down below, to the Facet fuel pump. (because the boat's been on the hard for 8 years and the fuel in the tank is a nice gel now.)

Of course, the blower didn't work...
"Hey Barney, why don't we let all this air out a bit before we try cranking it?"

So, I spent the afternoon at the end of the pickup bed, splitting the carb open & cleaning it out because the float valve was stuck open (fuel pump runs w/ key on & drips gas in the bilge out the carb), along with some nice black goo in all the carb orifices which we blasted out with carb cleaner.

It reminded me of this thread..there were to be no external spark checks (grounding the plug wires to the block, etc..) or the like, until I have a way to ventilate the cabin.

I am pretty sure the carb is now ready, & Barney previously confirmed compression, so now we need spark..just waiting until I have a big box fan or similar plugged in and running in the cabin to troubleshoot that. I did find a nice Pertronix 1146A EI unit, new in box, in the boat, so I put that in the distributor...I told Barney we'd hook up again after Irene blew thru town.

If you smell gas, it is too strong.

P.S.> Since I am a mechanical fuel pump guy, I need to review the OPSS wiring for the fuel pump...might be currently by-passed since the fuel pump runs as soon as the key is 'on'. there were a couple of wires strewn in the engine compartment from the coil & starter to the OPSS.

P.P.S> Wow, do I like my Catalina 30 engine access. The distributor work was done just about blind from the port quarterberth!

[ndutton]

That's my MOTHER with the hat. I gonna tell her you said that. Boy are you in trouble!

A better reaction than I hoped for!

[P30]

Greetings from sailboat heaven - that was quite the explosion!

It’s pretty cool up here. Everyone has an A4, even the new Hinckleys, though there isn’t much need for them since the wind always blows us where we want to go …

… thought I’d better chime back in. Thanks to all of you for the great advice. My only boat time so far this week has been dedicated to Irene-proofing her and my plan now is to rig the temporary tank on my own swim ladder (great idea!) while I figure out if dirty fuel is my problem. Though even if it isn’t, I’m still gonna work on getting more of that sludge out. Wish I could find a better pump to use since the fill hole is the easiest way to get at it. I love my Jabsco hand pump but it comes with the same warning against pumping flammables that I guess any pump with metal innards carries. So far I have only used a dinghy pump – with mixed results.

[Antibes]

I used a generic electric fuel pump from the local auto parts store. Less than $40, safe and faster than a hand pump. Good luck