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  #1   IP: 69.232.198.141
Old 12-29-2009, 06:00 PM
SeaFever SeaFever is offline
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For Sale: Atomic 4 Gas Engine in Excellent running condition in boat

I have a 30 Hp Atomic 4 gas engine in excellent running condition for sale. Engine is raw water cooled. I am selling since I have decided to re-power with a diesel. The sale includes the following:

1. 30 Hp Atomic 4 4 cylinder gas engine that has:
a. 1:1 gear box
b. Original 37 Amp Universal alternator with Prestolite regulator
c. Oberdorfer water pump
d. Original Manual and a soft copy if you need it

2. Gas fuel filter

The engine is in excellent running condition. It starts with the 1st crank and runs smoothly. Just last year I cleaned up the cooling passages with oxalic acid per the instructions on this forum and since then it runs even more smoothly.

I would welcome you to come and see the engine running in my boat and test it before you decide to buy. My boat is a Pearson 10M (33ft) and is located in Embarcadero Cove Marina close to Coast Guard Island in Oakland, CA, USA. I am trying to insert the urls to my pics below hope that works, otherwise I will attach photo files.

Make me an offer. Only serious buyers contact please. Contact Mahendra at msoneji@pacbell.net
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Last edited by Administrator; 12-30-2009 at 09:18 AM. Reason: Images resized.
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  #2   IP: 76.106.6.207
Old 12-29-2009, 07:53 PM
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Goodness gracious. You've got a perfectly-running pinup-quality A4 in your boat and you want to dump it for an expensive, smelly, noisy diesel?

What on Earth for? Seriously. Were you talked into this by your sailing peers? Did you inherit and are looking for ways to get rid of the money?

I think an intervention is called for. Anyone live close by?
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:14 PM
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Anybody notice the "hot spot" on the manifold mentioned in a separate thread?

Bill
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:14 PM
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Yep. I've got one on my engine too, and it runs as cool as the other side of the pillow. Well, actually right at 160 or so.

I think it's just the way those engines roll.
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Old 12-29-2009, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimore Sailor View Post
Goodness gracious. You've got a perfectly-running pinup-quality A4 in your boat and you want to dump it for an expensive, smelly, noisy diesel?
What on Earth for? Seriously. Were you talked into this by your sailing peers? Did you inherit and are looking for ways to get rid of the money?
I think an intervention is called for. Anyone live close by?
Man, I strongly second Baltimore's admonition (advisement, advocacy, caution, charge, consultation, counsel, direction, dissuasion, encouragement, exhortation, forewarning, guidance, help, information, injunction, input, instruction, judgment, lesson, news, opinion, persuasion, prescription, proposal, proposition, recommendation, steer, suggestion, teaching, telltale, tidings, tip, tip-off, two cents' worth, view, warning, word, word to the wise)

Why would you do that?!
I may swing by and pick up Neil and we'll come up there and "intervene"?
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  #6   IP: 24.152.140.113
Old 12-30-2009, 12:10 AM
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Dude, sounds like you swallowed a dictionary.

There's a long held belief by some that gasoline has no place on a boat and resale values bear this out. The hypocrisy of it all is these same boats often use propane as their cooking fuel - similar explosive force, heavier than air and worst of all, stored under pressure. Somehow, that goes unnoticed.

SeaFever, we're all interested. As Balty pondered, why go through the hassle and expense of replacing a good running, reliable engine? And I'm curious, what kind of cooking fuel do you use?
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Last edited by ndutton; 12-30-2009 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Dude, sounds like you swallowed a dictionary.
Yeah, too much drink trying to drown out listening to my Father-in-Law explain things to me at dinner. (Another post for another site)
Apologies...

But seriously, SeaFever. Listen to the reason here...
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Last edited by roadnsky; 12-30-2009 at 12:22 AM.
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  #8   IP: 24.152.140.113
Old 12-30-2009, 12:38 AM
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As long as father-in-law was buying, you get a pass.
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1977 Catalina 30
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:23 PM
SeaFever SeaFever is offline
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For Sale: Atomic 4 Gas Engine in Excellent running condition in boat

Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the feedback. I have used and maintained the A4 for a few years now and I love and admire it. I am not going to berate the A4 as it is a good engine. Believe me I have given this a good amount of thought and also I am not going to be spending a whole lot of money as I don't have much to spare... I took my time finding the right diesel engine at the right price. I also am going to do a lot of the work myself to save money. I have acquired a Universal M25 3 cyl diesel and have been working on it in my garage for the last 6-8 months. The M25s were used by Catalina 30/34/36s and a M25XP is still in production. The M25 is a Kubota 850 engine so I am able to get most parts at a great price from Kubota. Luckily I got a engine in great condition that shows factory spec compression on all cylinders and one that fits on my 11.5" center to center stringers and is sized right to fit in my boat. I will have to add some height on the stringers perhaps but that is easy.

I would like to do some long distance cruising and also a bit more torque at low rpm would be helpful. Note that I have a hard mounted 1:1 gear straight A4. Even though my engine runs smoothly the diesel is not going to have more vibration than the A4 given the fact that I will have mounting bolts. The 2:1 Tx will allow for a larger prop (maybe a 14x10 instead of the current 12x7) to push my 12500 Lb displacement hull.

There is a reason why there are few gas engines in production for sailboats today and that most, if not all, sailboat builders use diesels these days.

I am confident that my A4 will provide a good reliable and cheap alternative to anyone needing a replacement as compared to buying a rebuilt one or an unknown condition one to rebuild. I would appreciate you guys more experienced than me letting me know what would be a good price for my A4 so I don't leave money on the table.

I am grateful for all the advice and welcome anyone who wants to visit me here in Oakland, CA. I am technical so I will welcome and enjoy the discussion. Please use my email in the first posting to contact me. I will be happy to show you my boat and we can have a meal together.

Cheers.
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  #10   IP: 68.104.86.236
Old 12-30-2009, 10:53 PM
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SF-
All good solid reasons for making your decision. Best of luck.
Sorry to see you leave our band of gypsies...
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  #11   IP: 24.152.140.113
Old 12-30-2009, 11:13 PM
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SeaFever,

My goal is not to change your mind. You've thought this out thoroughly and you've got to do what's right for you.

You made a comment, though, that caught my eye:

Quote:
There is a reason why there are few gas engines in production for sailboats today and that most, if not all, sailboat builders use diesels these days.
I expect there are several reasons:
1. The boatbuying public has bought into the diesel superiority argument and because of this -
2. Sailboats with diesels have higher resale value.
3. Boatbuilders cater to their buyers or they don't sell boats.
4. There are no longer any gas auxiliaries that compare to the now discontinued Atomic 4 (in my opinion, there never were, including the Palmer P60 or the open flywheel Volvo MB-10 which I doubt anyone on this forum has even heard of).

At least that's the current situation as I see it.

Looking at fiberglass sailboats dating back to their heyday of the early 70's, the venerable Catalina 30, the most prolific 30 footer in history with somewhere around 8000 boats produced, was originally designed around the Atomic 4. When diesels became popular with buyers, Catalina tried several models with varying levels of success, both in fit and performance. It took them quite a while to find a suitable diesel replacement for the A4. I admit when I bought my boat a few years ago, I figured I'd get the useful life out of my 30+ year old engine and then change to a diesel.

Four years later, I hope that day never comes.
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 12-31-2009 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 01-02-2010, 01:13 AM
SeaFever SeaFever is offline
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Hi Niel,

I agree with your points and assessment of the market situation. I am quite sure your A4 will provide you with many more years of service. With the help of people like Don Moyer A4 users keep getting quality parts at reasonable prices, which is a great thing.

Let me know if you guys want to get together. I look forward to meeting and speaking with you guys. It will be fun, we go out on a sail in SF bay.

Happy New Year and cheers for now.
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:02 PM
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SF,

You've asked about a reasonable market price for your A4. Currently there's a M25XP for $4K, a 5411 for $2700 and a 5416 for $3400, all of these are diesels comparable to the A4 and professionally remanufactured. There's an as-is 5416 available for $2500.

I've seen as-is A4's in various conditions priced from $250 (dog butt ugly) to around $1300 with most in the middle range, around $800 or so.

My point in mentioning the diesels is if you price yourself in that range, many will opt for the diesel for reasons posted earlier by both of us.

This certainly isn't the last word, just what I've seen around.
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Had my hands in a few others
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  #14   IP: 138.163.106.72
Old 01-04-2010, 04:38 PM
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Interested

I am interested. I am SOCAL.
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Old 01-09-2010, 04:54 PM
SeaFever SeaFever is offline
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Hi Outpatient,

Feel free to email me at my email address in the original posting or PM (private message) me.

Thanks,

Mahendra
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Old 01-16-2010, 03:43 AM
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prop size

Mahendra,
Regarding:
The 2:1 Tx will allow for a larger prop (maybe a 14x10 instead of the current 12x7) to push my 12500 Lb displacement hull.

Just thought I'd let you know what I'm running on a 2:1 reduction on my A-4.

I have a 12,0000 lb boat also (Columbia 36) with a 28'-3" waterline.

The prop is 16" (x 11" I think).
It pushes the boat fine. I don't have a tach so I don't know if it spins up properly.

Dave Gerr's The Nature of boats has a simple propellor sizing chart.
He also wrote The propellor Handbook, but I haven't read it.

I may go diesel some day too, but I would keep my A-4 to put in a launch. You see, I like motorboats too. Shhhh

Russ
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:48 PM
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Thanks Russ. I will check out Dave Gerr's books.

BTW, I checked some of my old photos from the last haulout and it seems I can fit a 16" prop. In which case I may go for a 16" 3 blade prop and see what pitch works best. Most likely ot will be between 9-10.

I will keep you guys posted.
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Old 01-16-2010, 03:25 PM
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pop on a proper prop

There are of course many variables for a prop. My prop is a two-bladed designed for a sailboat. I think if I remember right, that three blades will give more cross section (surface area of circle). The two blade probably are good for sailboats because they make less drag when not in use.
Everything's a compromise.

Most of the props that are designed for our A-4s seem to be just for direct drive. I will have to just research for myself the proper prop for my 2:1 whenever I need a new one.

I found a preview of Dave's book at:
http://books.google.com/books?id=8w0...age&q=&f=false

Page xvi starts to disscus this stuff. I think amazon sells the book.

Happy motoring,
Russ
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:05 PM
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All,

The engine is sold and picked up by a local buyer. My beloved A4 has found a good home and will be fitted in a Catalina 30.

Thanks for all the people who inquired.

Regards.
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Old 05-16-2016, 06:38 PM
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Gentlemen

I just tore out my Atomic 4 this morning.I have seen a M25 for sale here in Maine,I have a Saber 28 can I assume the M 25 will fit. The one I saw only has 3 mounts,1 in the middle front but I am not concerned about that. On my Atomic 4 reduction gear reads UJ5 UF. Is this 1:1 or 2:1? My prop is a 12 6 and it did not push the boat well at all. Any and all info is much appreciated. I HAVE A 7/8 shaft.
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Old 05-16-2016, 07:12 PM
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I Don't Get IT

The M25 is a 21 HP engine (?) as far as I know. How will a 21 HP engine push the boat better than a 30 HP engine?

TRUE GRIT
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:25 PM
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A 21 HP diesel with a 2 or 3 to 1 reduction will win a tug-of-war contest with most A4s using direct drive. Very few A4s using direct drive get past 20-22 HP or so and the smaller prop is less efficient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post
The M25 is a 21 HP engine (?) as far as I know. How will a 21 HP engine push the boat better than a 30 HP engine?

TRUE GRIT
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Old 05-17-2016, 03:10 PM
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Earl, If you had a 12 x 6 prop, you most likely had a 1:1. The 2:1 reduction drive is an offset, separate unit that bolts to the back of the motor's output shaft, or it is a V-drive configuration, like Ed from farther up (the motor is mounted backwards and the prop shaft does a 180° V from the output shaft under the motor and out the boat).

I will agree that any reduction in environment (dirty bottom or dirty prop), or a poorly tuned A-4 will result in a dissatisfaction of the A-4's ability to propel the boat. I can notice a difference with just a couple weeks of growth or the tiniest barnacles on the prop.

From my understanding, the M series of diesel Universal motors comparable in HP to the A-4 are taller, so keep that in mind. In a C-30, with the engine under the galley/settee, the later boats with the bigger M-25+'s had "seat humps" to accommodate the motor...just a word of caution, but I don't know where yours is mounted..it may not be an issue for you. I think most Sabres were under the steps??

What are you doing with the old A-4? Putting it up for sale here on the forum?
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