Anti freeze in #4

[Sailwood]

Getting the engine ready for Spring launch, I removed the plugs and rotated with the hand crank. Out of #4 of a fresh water cooled rebuild (110 hrs after conversion to fw during the rebuild) now with a new head subsequent to that because of a wish for the antifreeze seen earlier to be a result of a cracked head, came green antifreeze. Clearly the water jacket has been violated at #4. Other than replacing the block, which would solve the problem, is there anything to do? Will it hurt to run the engine (usually 50-60 hrs a year) until I get enough money from the sale of my grandchildren to replace the block? If an aftermarket block is purchased, would it be risky to use the old innards (previously new main, rod, and cam bearings, new oem cam, the old rods, pistons, new rings, etc) Can the old style starter be used? The distributor?

Doug Soden
ASPEN Columbia 29 #131
Little Egg Harbor, NJ

[ndutton]

Is there any chance, any chance the breach is in the manifold and the #4 exhaust valve was open during layup? A manifold pressure test will tell the story and is pretty easy to do.

Your previous antifreeze incursion suggests probably not but I'm hoping for the best.

[Mo]

Hi Doug,

Absolutely, as Neil stated, check that manifold for a breach first...if you are lucky that is the problem. Also, take an antifreeze tester and check the strength of your protection.

Did you run antifreeze (and what type) in through the raw water intake as well. I think we really need to look further into engines that were fine going into winter layup coming out with what could be major problems.

Good luck with that and hoping for the best.

[Sailwood]

The manifold is new (MM) The center nut could not be torqued beyond 21# before it went "soft". J-B Weld was tried and failed. Less than 3 full threads on the stud into the block. The head is new (MM) torqued to 35# in proper sequence with new gasket. Re-torqued after 10 hours. At start-up for the trip to the yard for winter haul in October she blew white smoke for half the trip. Seemed a little lower in power. I don't recall the reason for pulling the head a couple years ago, but a small amount of antifreeze was noted in #4. That's when I bought the new head from Don with new gasket. My hope was a head crack as it had overheated when some numbhead (me) put the stat housing on backwards. I guess it was a pinhole about twice the size of my brain.

The decision is not WHAT is going on as that seems clear, but what needs to be, or should be, done. Aside from white smoke (steam) and what the EPA is thinking as I motor past, is this situation likely to be disastrous for the engine or can I run it to get to the bay, about 25 mins at 1600 rpm?

[Mo]

Doug,

Is there any water showing in the oil? It will appear grey or whitish foam on the dipstick. If the oil is just normal...same as in a car (it will likely be a bit darker in this engine). You need to know if the water/antifreeze is going into the oil.

How does the temperature look when running?

It might be possible to be getting some antifreeze come in through a bolt hole on the head. I have heard of it and they usually fix it by removing suspected stud and putting permatex in the hole and running the stud back in....hoping someone else will chime in on that one.

Could try a compression check and if you have a drop on two adjacent cylinders you know the head gasket is done. The problem with a leak and freshwater cooling is that the freshwater side has a limited supply of coolant....once it leaks out of the system that engine will get hot.

My best advice is find out how much you are leaking, the cause, and where it is going. You can overheat that engine in 25 minutes. To be honest, it sounds like you might have a head gasket gone, one of those bolts leaking (unlikely in my view) or a crack in something else there....my first guess would be the head gasket. I know you had a previous problem there but if it was fixed the first time there`s nothing to say it could not recur. Head gaskets usually go in a overheating incident. You described white smoke last fall...that's an indicator of a head gasket.

[Marian Claire]

Was the block magnafluxed during the rebuild? "Can the old style starter be used? The distributor?" From post #1. Have not done any of these changes so others may have better info. I believe you can use a early starter on a late block if the flywheel is switched to a early type. The starter and flywheels must be matched. The hold-downs are different for the early and late distributors. Moyer makes a adapter that allows for using a late dist on a early block. I think a late block would have to be tapped to accommodate a early dist hold-down. Dan S/V Marian Claire

[Dave Neptune]

Hmm!

Doug, doesn't sound good but not all is lost yet. As you recently had the head off I'd take a look inside. If you did a preasure test of the block you would find a leak but not where it is. The fact that you blew white smoke tells me that there was some wet in the system.
Did you get a good seal on the manifold to block finally? And are there any signs of antifreeze under the manifold?
I'd pull the head for a good look at the "gaskets" and studs for trails. I have often seen a freshly set head leak!!! Can you tell how much coolant you lost?
Finally did the oil get milky looking at all??

Dave Neptune

[Sailwood]

Oil was changed just prior to the 1hr trip to the boatyard. Oil was clean, no evidence of water. No antifreeze leak is apparent under the manifold. Temp was fine at 170 approaching the yard. Antifreeze reservoir topped off prior to the trip but down about 1/2" on arrival and now. Will pull the head today and take a look.

Doug

[Sailwood]

Pulled the head. #4 has a corrosion "ring" that does not appear changed from that found a few years ago. I poked at it under magnifying glass, does not appear to be a pin hole. The top of piston was clean on a different quadrant than it was a few years ago. I'm hoping it was the head gasket but could not tell from looking at the old one. My plan at present is to place new head gasket torqing stepwise in proper order and see what happens. If she still blows white steam, then the block will have to be dealt with definitively. I would probably go with the short block from Don.

Doug

[Mo]

Doug, the compression check mentioned earlier would have helped with the Dx of head gasket. May as well try a head gasket as you are doing. Although I'm not familiar with the FWC set-up on these, make sure the T-stat is working perfect and that the circulation pump is functioning properly. I believe Neil and Hanley have FWC and could probably help you out with that.

[edwardc]

... I think a late block would have to be tapped to accommodate a early dist hold-down...

It's the other war around. An early block has to be tapped to accomodate a late model hold-down. (I had to do this). In the early model, the hold-down hole is in the top of the accessory drive. In the late model, it's on the block flange where the accessory drive mounts.

[Marian Claire]

A follow up/correction to my comments in post #6. http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6238 Dan S/V Marian Claire