Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Troubleshooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 45.48.80.165
Old 07-19-2021, 11:30 PM
Rando1201's Avatar
Rando1201 Rando1201 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 96
Thanks: 38
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Alternator exciter wire sending 12v to coil.

Hello, I bought this engine used. Im not sure how to identify the posts on the alternator. It is a vdrive so it is difficult to get to. The problem i am having is the exciter wire is hot with 12v with the ignition switch turned off and battery on. Previously I had to figure out why my fwc electric pump was turning on. After removing the exciter wire from coil + the problem was solved. Later i tested with a voltmeter and found 12v at the wire. I have tried to find my alternator online but it is painted over. I have attached pictures for reference. Im trying to find the output. I am running an ammeter not voltmeter. Just what came stock on my columbia 30 gauge cluster.
Attached Images
   
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 104.174.83.118
Old 07-19-2021, 11:41 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Yours is the early Motorola style, upper right picture
Attached Images
 
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 45.48.80.165
Old 07-19-2021, 11:59 PM
Rando1201's Avatar
Rando1201 Rando1201 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 96
Thanks: 38
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
You are the man! Thankyou!
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 45.48.80.165
Old 07-20-2021, 12:07 AM
Rando1201's Avatar
Rando1201 Rando1201 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 96
Thanks: 38
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
So from what im seeing there is no exciter wire. Hmm that is the wire I had going to coil positive. Which was the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 104.174.83.118
Old 07-20-2021, 12:43 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
In the picture, Ignition + is the exciter.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 45.48.80.165
Old 07-20-2021, 12:50 AM
Rando1201's Avatar
Rando1201 Rando1201 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 96
Thanks: 38
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
I see, but what im saying is when the ignition switch is off i am still measuring 12v from the exciter wire even when it is not on coil positive.
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 138.207.177.95
Old 07-20-2021, 07:42 AM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
Either you have the wrong wire or something is wrong with the alternator.
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 104.174.83.118
Old 07-20-2021, 09:32 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Were you having any problem turning the engine off? With 12V coming from the exciter wire and with it connected to coil + I would expect the engine to continue running with the key off. Something is not adding up.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 165.225.20.179
Old 07-20-2021, 10:24 AM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Were you having any problem turning the engine off? With 12V coming from the exciter wire and with it connected to coil + I would expect the engine to continue running with the key off. Something is not adding up.
unless the fuel safety shut off valve is wired on a seperate circuit that losses 12V when the key is turned to off... (which it should not ...)
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 104.174.83.118
Old 07-20-2021, 11:00 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
unless the fuel safety shut off valve is wired on a seperate circuit that losses 12V when the key is turned to off...
Even so the engine would continue to run for a minute or more.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
Surcouf (07-20-2021)
  #11   IP: 47.142.134.59
Old 07-20-2021, 01:59 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rando1201 View Post
the exciter wire is hot with 12v with the ignition switch turned off and battery on. Previously I had to figure out why my fwc electric pump was turning on. After removing the exciter wire from coil + the problem was solved. .
Who knows how the previous owner has the boat\engine wired? The exciter wire should should be conducting electricity from coil + to the alternator not the other way around. I'd rewire the engine the way it was originally with the exciter wire to coil + and go from there.

ex TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 45.48.80.165
Old 07-22-2021, 04:49 PM
Rando1201's Avatar
Rando1201 Rando1201 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 96
Thanks: 38
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Were you having any problem turning the engine off? With 12V coming from the exciter wire and with it connected to coil + I would expect the engine to continue running with the key off. Something is not adding up.

No I am able to kill the engine with the ignition switch.
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 45.48.80.165
Old 07-22-2021, 04:55 PM
Rando1201's Avatar
Rando1201 Rando1201 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 96
Thanks: 38
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post
Who knows how the previous owner has the boat\engine wired? The exciter wire should should be conducting electricity from coil + to the alternator not the other way around. I'd rewire the engine the way it was originally with the exciter wire to coil + and go from there.

ex TRUE GRIT
Ok, I am down to a relay, which I think might be the problem. Not totally sure though. The main issue is that the electronic water pump doesn't shut off when I flip the ignition switch. Yet my gauges do shut off, and that's everything on coil positive.

I think since I had gone to the channel islands, where I had a hot coil issue, it may have burned up something in the relay for the electric water pump.

Thomas from Indigo is sending a new relay assembly for shipping costs only, as he is helping me diagnose this issue over the phone.

I did wind up taking the wire off of the alleged alternator output, and ran the engine while testing voltage with my multimeter, and did get a strong voltage there. So I know my wiring is right. The ammeter does move with RPM, so I believe I am right there.

I would think if the exciter wire is back feeding the electricity, then my guages would still be powered. Not sure of the issue, if anything I will just wire another switch for the water pump.

As of right now when I turn the ignition switch on, everything powers on as it should, but when I flip the ignition switch off, the only thing that doesn't shut off is the water pump. In order for me to turn the water pump off I have to toggle the battery switch to on/off, then flip the ignition, and it turns on.

Ill update on Friday when I get the new relay.
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 107.77.228.201
Old 07-24-2021, 07:40 PM
Rando1201's Avatar
Rando1201 Rando1201 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 96
Thanks: 38
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Update.
The relay was not the issue.

I removed the exciter wire and the water pump shuts off with the ignition.

I tested voltage on the output to the ammeter. I maxed at rpms and read 17volts at the highest and around 13 just after idle. My boat didn't come with a tach.

There is no noticeable difference from starting to not starting with the exciter wire detached.

I also sanded the name plate and found Mr12n451d type b.

I did just test the exciter wire its the only one with a square connector and a coil in the wire, the voltage increased in this wire as well.

Last edited by Rando1201; 07-24-2021 at 08:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 104.174.83.118
Old 07-25-2021, 12:01 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rando1201 View Post
I removed the exciter wire and the water pump shuts off with the ignition. . . . . .I tested voltage on the output to the ammeter. I maxed at rpms and read 17volts at the highest and around 13 just after idle.
17 volts is obscenely high and tells me you have no functioning alternator regulation. If you continue to run this way it's going to damage something. Maybe it already has, particularly your Channel Islands overheated coil. Have you replaced that coil? You should.

Quote:
I did just test the exciter wire its the only one with a square connector and a coil in the wire, the voltage increased in this wire as well.
Strike two on alternator regulation. Based on what I'm reading in this thread I recommend replacing the alternator outright.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
Rando1201 (07-25-2021)
  #16   IP: 45.48.80.165
Old 07-25-2021, 09:54 AM
Rando1201's Avatar
Rando1201 Rando1201 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 96
Thanks: 38
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Ah regulation, getting it, makes sense. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 104.174.83.118
Old 07-25-2021, 12:22 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
What became of the overheated Channel Islands coil?
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 45.48.80.165
Old 07-25-2021, 12:25 PM
Rando1201's Avatar
Rando1201 Rando1201 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 96
Thanks: 38
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
The coil was significantly damaged. I purchased indigos coil and electronic module since then.
Reply With Quote
  #19   IP: 104.174.83.118
Old 07-25-2021, 12:47 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rando1201 View Post
The coil was significantly damaged. I purchased indigos coil and electronic module since then.
Thank you, we hate to leave questions dangling. Something about closure.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
Rando1201 (07-25-2021)
  #20   IP: 45.48.80.165
Old 07-25-2021, 10:17 PM
Rando1201's Avatar
Rando1201 Rando1201 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 96
Thanks: 38
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Of course. I understand. Going to start shopping for alternators now.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alternator, exciter wire

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Moved coil - need longer wire... theredboat Ignition System 3 06-25-2011 11:34 PM
engine stops Possum Troubleshooting 4 04-20-2011 09:19 AM
Schematic - draft for new ignition panel rigspelt Electrical 51 04-06-2010 09:17 AM
Fuse location in IGN to Coil + wire kwalters Ignition System 13 09-14-2009 05:01 AM
Hi, new member with a problem cpdeeley Introductions 10 01-11-2009 01:43 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved