engine won't start

[sailr]

I have a 1968 C&C redwing 30 with an atomic four engine. Engine ran fine and then it set up for several months when I was ill and unable to run it. There is no spark to plugs so I replaced the coil and condenser. Still no spark when I tried to crank. Engine turns over very strongly (batteries are fine) I saw here that there is supposed to be a 20 amp fuse in purple wire from ignition switch to positive terminal of coil. The wire from positive terminal to ignition on my engine is green and I can't find a fuse anywhere that I can see. Unfortunately the design of the redwing is such that I can't see the entire run of the wire. The ignition switch is in a portion of the port side of the cockpit with the controls for acceleration and forward and reverse. I haven't been able to check if there is power in the wire going to the coil yet. Weather (rain and high winds) have kept me from the boat. Should there be power to the coil if I turn on ignition as if I was trying to crank the engine? Or will there only be current when I actually turn the key to point where the motor turns over? Any help with information would be greatly appreciated.

[sastanley]

sailr, Welcome to the forum.
To answer your 2nd to last question, YES..there should be 12-ish volts to the coil (+) post if you have the key on but not cranking. This can burn up the coil if left in that position too long, so get your meter all ready and check it quickly (several seconds should be fine..if you leave it on and go to the head and come back, who knows?) Coils usually last forever with points, unless someone burns it up with an oversight like leaving the key on for an extended period.

So, it cranks fine and won't start...are you sure there is no spark? What about fuel? Is it puddling in the bottom of the carb? As long as there is ZERO gas smell, it is safe to pull a plug wire and see if it will arc a nice bright spark across some shiny metal ground on the engine while cranking, maybe even the spark plug tip. This will tell us if there is a spark. One more check, when you replaced the condenser, were you careful not to upset the points? Be sure they are opening and closing too..this would have to be checked with the distributor cap off while cranking by hand or starter. 0.18-0.20" I think is gap number on points.

Keep sending updates to our Q's and we'll keep helping 'til the old girl runs again!

sidebar- I used to race on a Redwing 30 in my youth out of Solomons, MD..the boat is now in Oxford, MD, and still sailing as far as I know..last saw her in about 2015.

[CajunSpike]

It could be as simple as a little corrosion on the points contact, preventing current flow. He replaced the coil and condensor. Didn't mention the points.

[JOHN COOKSON]

The ignition system is divided into two parts. The boat's part and the engine's part.
Part 1. Be sure electricity is getting to coli + when the key is in the on position as mentioned by Shawn. If not there is a wiring or switch problem. Getting electricity to the coil is the "boat" part of the ignition system.
Part 2. - The engine's part.
Remove the wire that goes to the points from coil - . Turn the engine until the points are closed and take a resistance reading from the end of this wire to the distributor breaker plate. S\B zero ohms. Possible problems: Points not conducting or wiring problem.
Next turn the engine to open the points and take same resistance reading. S\B an open circuit. Possible problems: There is a short somewhere. Condenser or wiring. Check the wiring closely. Sometimes there is a place where the insulation is worn away where the wire goes into the distributor.
Then gap the points to the correct gap. Pull the large wire out of the center of the distributor and hold it near the ground (the engine) while the engine is being cranked. A blue white 1/2-3/4" spark is good. Possible problems: Coil is weak or shot or the condenser a goner.
Put the large wire back into the distributor. Pull a wire off a spark plug and attach it to a loose spark plug. Hold the plug on the engine to ground while you turn the engine. Possible problem: Something is haywire inside the distributor.
You now have spark.

TRUE GRIT

[sailr]

Thanks for Info

I appreciate all the information and suggestions. I have already tried the coil and spark plug trick and still no spark. I need to try to see if there is current coming from the ignition to the coil. If there is none then I guess I need to look at rewiring or replacing the ignition switch which is gonna be a PITA. At this time I'll place a 20 amp fuse in the circuit where I can get at it. I guess the new coil could be bad. If current check on wire to coil is positive then I'll get another coil and try.

I can't do anything for a few days as we are having thunderstorms and high winds in the Lake Charles area and being down in a hole and being bounced around is not my idea of fun.

Again thanks for all your willingness to pass on information to me. Kinda brings a tear to the ole eyes

[Dave Neptune]

Many a "key switch" get replaced around here. Do check to see if the switch is conducting. Or try a hot wire from the battery to start and check the ignition half (thanx John).

Dave Neptune

[Sam]

A classic mistake, at least for me, is when the condenser [or points] is changed the re assembly sequence for the condenser lead, coil lead, insulator washer[s] on the distributor post for the points is easy to get mixed up - small parts working in low light if you don't remove the distributor. The engine will turnover fine but secondary ignition spark will be non-existent. Another dumb mistake on my early model A4 is leaving the hinged oil fill open and it touches the distributor grounding out the spark current. Again, engine turns over well but won't start. Some of the pros on this site can correctly and effectively address some more complex issues and give you a good answer in couple of sentences but your problem may just be simple one. As mentioned before, a little invisible corrosion on the points quickly removed with a fine point file or emery cloth may also solve your issue. good luck

[JOHN COOKSON]

Divide and Conquer

A military strategy that has been used for many centuries.
In an engine we have the boat's part and the engine's part of the ignition system. Viewing the system as a whole can lead to unnecessary, ineffective shotgun parts replacement.
So the FIRST STEP when there is "no spark" is to cheek for "12 volts" at coil +. If you don't have a meter handy a simple spark test with a short length of wire coil + to ground will do.
To trouble shoot the boat's part of the ignition system:
Disconnect the wire from the switch\key to the coil at the key and the coil. Use a volt meter to see if you are getting "12 volts" to the key. Turn the key on and use a volt meter to see if there is 12 volts at the terminal that the wire to the coil was connected to. You can tap the key\ switch with a screw driver handle while taking readings if you suspect an intermittent problem.
Next connect a jumper wire to one end of the wire from the key to the coil. (Most likely a purple wire.) Lead the jumper wire to the other end of the boat's wire and take a resistance reading at these two ends. S\B zero ohms.

TRUE GRIT

Edit: BTW have you been keeping the valve on the raw cooling water intake closed while on start cranking?
Another welcome to the forum.

[CajunSpike]

Another Louisiana person. So I'm not the only one! :-)

[Al Schober]

These 'no start' situations are no fun - whether it's your Atomic 4 or your weed whacker. My first test is always a short blast of starting ether. If the engine starts and runs for a few seconds on the ether, you know you have a fuel issue. If the engine doesn't respond to the ether, you know you have a spark issue.

[sailr]

closed raw water valve

Yep I closed the raw water valve after a couple of tries. I had heard and read some place that one guy flooded his engine by cranking the engine for a while when it wouldn't start. I've rebuilt an Atomic four in a Catalina 27 before, but never had the problem with it not starting. The raw water system had all the passages closed off from the PO who had not flushed the engine or maintained it. Had to use a drill bit to open up the concrete like mess occluding the passages. Cured my overheating problem! I'm really dreading having to crawl down in the lazarette on the port side to try to get to the wiring and ignition. I'm 73 with psoriatic arthritis and ankylosing spondylitis. I'm just not flexible LOL. If you are familiar with a 68 C&C redwing 30 the lazarette on the port side is deep and narrow. I'll have to take a small step stool down into the lazarette so I can climb back out of the thing after I do the work. Wish me luck. Weather is supposed to get better with no rain in the forecast and hopefully the winds will die down so I can get the work done. Thanks again for your suggestions and information.

[ndutton]

Parts of the story missing

. . . or in other words, one step at a time. No need to crawl into the laz if tests don't indicate a problem there. Have you tested voltage between the small coil + post and the engine block ground with the ignition switch on? The definitive answer to that question will tell us if you need to crawl. I read back through the thread and didn't see anything.

[JOHN COOKSON]

I'm really dreading having to crawl down in the lazarette on the port side to try to get to the wiring and ignition. I'm 73 with psoriatic arthritis and ankylosing spondylitis. I'm just not flexible LOL. If you are familiar with a 68 C&C redwing 30 the lazarette on the port side is deep and narrow. I'll have to take a small step stool down into the lazarette so I can climb back out of the thing after .Thanks again for your suggestions and information.

Sometimes it seems that a boat was designed by a navel architect\engineer that didn't like their job.
Good news.
If the wire key -> to coil + is shot you can run a new wire by the easiest route. There is no need to follow the route of the existing wire. One consideration: The longer the run the bigger the wire needs to be.

TRUE GRIT

[sailr]

Thanks for Info

Well Rain is out of forecast and winds seem to be dying down. Tomorrow (Monday)I go and try to check the wire from ignition to coil for current. That should tell me something hopefully. No current then have to crawl into lazarette and find out if there is a fuse somewhere or check ignition switch to see if there is a problem there. Thanks again for all your responses!

Sailr

[Whippet]

Don Moyer Check-List

Reminder that our leader had this no-start check list in newsletter a few years back. This has systematic approach others have discussed.

http://www.moyerphoto.com/moyermarineNL/2-1-14.html