Mysterious and immediate shut down

[tangaroa3]

Good day everyone,

My otherwise fine running engine just stopped the the other day while at the slip getting ready to get underway. No spitter, spatter, sputter....just off.
Turned the key off, checked for loose connections somewhere...all good.
My old Palmer did this once and it was the coil ground where it passes through the distributor body....anyway this wire chaffed and shorted out on the distributor body. Checked this on the A4 and all good. Firm, clean connections everywhere.
I then turned the key and it started right up as usual.
My thought is....and my question to all of you...is could water in the ignition switch serve to turn the ignition off? It's been raining for a freakin month here and it is conceivable that some moisture got into the switch.
If so....should a shot of electrical connection cleaner into the switch suffice?
All ignition connections, grounds, coil wire, etc...very good.
Thoughts?

[roadnsky]

Two questions...
How long was it running before it shut down?
How long a timeframe after the shutdown was it before it re-started?

[tangaroa3]

Originally Posted by roadnsky

Two questions...
How long was it running before it shut down?
How long a timeframe after the shutdown was it before it re-started?

I started it and ran it for probably 10 minutes before it shut down. It took another 10 minutes or so before I decided to just try and restart it.

[roadnsky]

Well, it could be a "cold joint" in the ignition circuit.
Can we assume it didn't repeat?

Here is a quote from Don about the "cold joint":
To keep things simple, before chasing the entire primary circuit which runs from the large battery terminal on the starter solenoid, through the ignition switch and back to the positive terminal of the coil, you could simply connect a jumper wire from the large battery terminal on the starter solenoid to the positive terminal of the coil. If the engine never shuts down as long as that jumper wire is installed, you will have confirmed that the primary ignition circuit has a cold joint in it someplace.

If the shutdowns continue with the jumper wire installed, you can check the remaining short section of the primary circuit which is between the negative terminal of the coil and the points. Sometimes the conductor in this short wire develops a cold joint where is passes under the distributor cap or at the terminal of the coil or at the points themselves.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Installing the jumper wire between the starter solenoid and the coil is the very same thing as turning on the ignition switch, so you cannot leave that wire installed except when running the engine or you willburn out the coil or kill the batteries.

[tangaroa3]

Originally Posted by roadnsky

Well, it could be a "cold joint" in the ignition circuit.
Can we assume it didn't repeat?

Here is a quote from Don about the "cold joint":
To keep things simple, before chasing the entire primary circuit which runs from the large battery terminal on the starter solenoid, through the ignition switch and back to the positive terminal of the coil, you could simply connect a jumper wire from the large battery terminal on the starter solenoid to the positive terminal of the coil. If the engine never shuts down as long as that jumper wire is installed, you will have confirmed that the primary ignition circuit has a cold joint in it someplace.

If the shutdowns continue with the jumper wire installed, you can check the remaining short section of the primary circuit which is between the negative terminal of the coil and the points. Sometimes the conductor in this short wire develops a cold joint where is passes under the distributor cap or at the terminal of the coil or at the points themselves.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Installing the jumper wire between the starter solenoid and the coil is the very same thing as turning on the ignition switch, so you cannot leave that wire installed except when running the engine or you willburn out the coil or kill the batteries.

Nope....the situation did not reoccur. Motored for a couple of hours without incident.

[JOHN COOKSON]

While the engine is running shake the boat's ignition wiring and see if you get another shut down.

TRUR GRIT

[ndutton]

I recommend replacing the ignition switch on principle. It's not conclusive the switch is the problem but it:

1. eliminates the switch from possible causes.
2. prevents a recurrence if it is.
3. doesn't cost that much in the big picture.
4. is known to be vulnerable to water incursion.
5. is probably due anyway if it's been a while.
6. revisits all connections to the switch.

[tangaroa3]

Thanks for all this folks ! The Cole Hersee ignition switch was new last year. One of the first replacement items on this journey to revive this engine...as were most all ignition parts and wiring. I've checked all connections on the primary circuit and I do believe all is good. The shut down matter has not happened again. I do believe it's water intrusion into the switch that caused the immediate shut down. The switch is the one with the rubber cover and slot for the key. I think I'll give it a shot of electrical part cleaner and fashion a plexi cover or something over the engine panel.
Raining here on the Eastern Shore of the Chesapeake again today !!!! Enough already !!

[hanleyclifford]

Keep your power dry.

[ndutton]

Originally Posted by tangaroa3

I do believe it's water intrusion into the switch that caused the immediate shut down.

If your belief is correct, all the more reason to change the switch regardless of its age. A brand new switch that has had water incursion may as well be 40 years old and even though there's been no repeat in a couple of hours, these things don't heal themselves. There's no downside to trying aerosol contact cleaner but it's a shot in the dark, an attempt based in faith. There's every chance the cleaner will do a good job on the lock tumblers and never reach the electrical contacts. A while back I had this type of keyswitch and after a few switches failed I made bi-annual replacement routine maintenance before it failed the next time. That seemed ridiculous so I got rid of it entirely. Managing a symptom instead of dealing with the real problem - the definition of a work-around - and here I was doing exactly what I advocate against.

I would think the goal is a reliable system free from worry. Please, change the switch or better yet, reconfigure so the critical ignition switch is not subjected to water incursion. I went with a booted toggle ignition switch and a separate booted starter button under a spray shield.

[hanleyclifford]

Originally Posted by ndutton

If your belief is correct, all the more reason to change the switch regardless of its age. A brand new switch that has had water incursion may as well be 40 years old and even though there's been no repeat in a couple of hours, these things don't heal themselves. There's no downside to trying aerosol contact cleaner but it's a shot in the dark, an attempt based in faith. A while back I had this type of keyswitch and after a few switches failed I made bi-annual replacement routine maintenance before it failed the next time. That seemed ridiculous so I got rid of it enti switcrely. Managing a symptom instead of dealing with the real problem - the definition of a work-around - and here I was doing exactly what I advocate against.

I would think the goal is a reliable system free from worry. Please, change the switch or better yet, reconfigure so the critical ignition switch is not subjected to water incursion. I went with a booted toggle ignition switch and a separate booted starter button under a spray shield.

+1 --- I also went to toggle switch and separate momentary button for the starter. The key only keeps your friends out.