Destiny gets new cutlass & ???

[hanleyclifford]

Coming north from Florida last spring I had to deal with vibration in the drive line especially at low rpms. While on the road in Georgia I bought the tools and parts thinking I might have to haul out somewhere and do the job but with careful throttling was able to nurse it back to Edgartown. Now the job must be done. Thought I might display the cool tool I cobbled using a 3/4" threaded galvanized rod and a coupling nut. The "slide hammer" also features an old shaft coupler. The split engine coupler makes the job easy. Next step will be to remove the shaft log to see if I can do the same trick with the bearing itself; sure would like to get it out in one piece for examination.

[Al Schober]

I must be missing something. I don't need a rig like that to pull my shaft. I just undo the coupling, back off the packing, and out she go!
Is the bearing worn? You don't have to pull the shaft to tell that! If it is worn, pulling the shaft is usually a first step in replacement.
Do you suspect a bent shaft? Check it in place with a couple of dial indicators. In particular, check both ends of the taper for the prop. If you get some 'funny' readings, try slacking off the bolts at the transmission coupling - there could be a 'kink' at the fwd end.

[hanleyclifford]

Originally Posted by Al Schober

I must be missing something. I don't need a rig like that to pull my shaft. I just undo the coupling, back off the packing, and out she go!
Is the bearing worn? You don't have to pull the shaft to tell that! If it is worn, pulling the shaft is usually a first step in replacement.
Do you suspect a bent shaft? Check it in place with a couple of dial indicators. In particular, check both ends of the taper for the prop. If you get some 'funny' readings, try slacking off the bolts at the transmission coupling - there could be a 'kink' at the fwd end.

Hi Al - Yeah the bearing needs to be replaced and the shaft as well, I think. I couldn't pull the shaft from the coupler by hand (corrosion, I guess). But the tool worked well and I'm hoping to use it (as a threaded puller) to get the cutlass out neatly.

[ndutton]

Hanley,
Have you given any consideration to the active water flow system designed to enhance bearing life of deadwood mounted bearings? It was discussed in a previous thread, the pertinent paragraph repeated here:

Somewhat related was the setup I had on my full keel Westsail. I drilled and tapped a 1/2" pipe thread into the bronze shaft log behind the stuffing box and ahead of the bearing. I plumbed a Tee into the cooling water circuit and directed a portion of the water into the forward end of the shaft log forcing water through the bearing under pressure rather than simply immersing it. The system really worked great but when I tested it on the hard I had a bunch of "experts" running around waving their arms and yelling at me that I had a serious water breach in my driveline.

Imagine the puzzled looks and head scratching when I told them no, it's supposed to do that.

[hanleyclifford]

Originally Posted by ndutton

Hanley,
Have you given any consideration to the active water flow system designed to enhance bearing life of deadwood mounted bearings? It was discussed in a previous thread, the pertinent paragraph repeated here:

Interesting idea, Neil, especially for someone like me. My shaft log is actually schedule 80 PVC, 1 1/4" threaded into the stuffing box base at one end and the cutlass box at the other; made it myself. I would have to bore (and repair) a hole of sufficient size on top of the stern post, then tap and glue into the log. I did it (bore and plug) when I first got the boat for the purpose of treating the interior of the sternpost with raw linseed oil and cuprinol, but that was only a 1/2" hole. Gears thinking.

[romantic comedy]

Nice slide hammer Hanley.

I just make the threaded rod into a puller. It seems better to me. Less shock.

[ndutton]

I saw the idea on a Freya 39 and liked it so much I 'borrowed' the concept for my Westsail. I figured it would get your attention, one of those thinking outside the box things.

The Freya had some V berth upper cabinets that found their way aboard the Westy too. They're on the right side of this picture. Double berth to port, seat, writing desk and those upper cabinets to starboard. Later owners modified the seat into some sort of counter.

[hanleyclifford]

Originally Posted by romantic comedy

Nice slide hammer Hanley.

I just make the threaded rod into a puller. It seems better to me. Less shock.

I see your point. All it would take is a piece of well pipe and a few washers. Next time...thanks for the tip!

[hanleyclifford]

The new super duper puller failed to get the cutlass bearing out today due to the deteriorated condition of the cutlass. Just no edge for the washer to set up on so it dragged into the rubber and locked it up. So I was back to the old hacksaw and vicegrips drill (the indignity of it all). A lot of materal transferred from the bearing to the box at the forward end. Better not wait 20 years next time.

[Mo]

Hanley,
Nice job. That looked like a bit of a Btch all right. I haven't done one. I have a very good friend that is a machinist and have seen him do a few at the club for people. Some can be real SOB's and others take no time ... depending on how rough conditions of everything is.

I was the oxy/acet torch "set up and pass it in guy" on one job...he had to heat everything under the cockpit to break the bolts and nuts etc for shaft removal. He wasn't overly impressed with that one...he spent an hour in there before I asked him if he wanted the iron axe.

If mine ever goes he'll get the call and the bottle of rum. This year I asked him to check mine. He walked past the back of my boat...gave prop a shake and said "no wear to speak of on that". He knows.

I needed one of my winches repaired after self tailing bolts broke off...then I twisted off easy out in there as well. I took both winches off and brought them to him...he calls me a day later...ready. He "made / machined" the new "SS shouldered" bolts for the self-tailers from looking at one of the good ones...the guy can do anything. He wouldn't even take a bottle of rum....he's always aboard for a nip anyway...good guy.

[hanleyclifford]

The odd thing about this job (so far) is that the cutlass bearing only showed about 1/16" to maybe 1/8" slop on the shaft. The cutlass actually looked good with uniform wear all around but the shaft showed significant wear. Also, the shaft showed the usual fine crud throughout the interior which suggests that maybe some kind of grit or pumice gets into the cutlass and wears the shaft. I think I'm going to go for that water injection system Neil suggested. Another possible source of grit is that muddy water I run in on the ICW.

[Mo]

Originally Posted by hanleyclifford

The odd thing about this job (so far) is that the cutlass bearing only showed about 1/16" to maybe 1/8" slop on the shaft. The cutlass actually looked good with uniform wear all around but the shaft showed significant wear. Also, the shaft showed the usual fine crud throughout the interior which suggests that maybe some kind of grit or pumice gets into the cutlass and wears the shaft. I think I'm going to go for that water injection system Neil suggested. Another possible source of grit is that muddy water I run in on the ICW.

Probably no shame for it for the amount of time it has been in service.

[ndutton]

Originally Posted by hanleyclifford

I think I'm going to go for that water injection system Neil suggested.

I figured you more than anyone would appreciate the charm of such a system. I remembered you are already diverting a portion of your raw water flow overboard so why not put it to good use?

We strut guys have good flow with the cutless exposed in the slipstream, not so much for full keelers.

[hanleyclifford]

Having cleaned the box of all the transferred metal the new cutlass was installed. The shaft (a piece of lightweight new shower pole) in the picture is actually used to test alignment or concentricity with the engine output coupling. As can be seen the engine is a little to port; however, this does not seem to have affected the wear pattern on the cutlass noticeably. I confirmed the slight lack of concentricity by rotating the shower pole by 1/4 turns and got similar results in each frame. The engine will be adjusted accordingly. It seems the shaft will be replaced.

[sastanley]

Hanley, is that 3rd picture the inside of the cutlass bearing laid open on a flat surface?

[hanleyclifford]

Originally Posted by sastanley

Hanley, is that 3rd picture the inside of the cutlass bearing laid open on a flat surface?

Yes, peeled open like a tin can..

[Whippet]

Didn't expect to see a cutlass discuss on A4 site but glad it's here.

I just fired up my C&C27 after its long winter's nap. A new surprise that wasnt there in the Fall: A lot of screaching coming from Cutlass at start up. but appears to go away when I give it more RPMs.

I really, really don't want to deal with this until next winter. Any advice here if i will do some permanent damage if i procrastinate? what is worse case? score the shaft? does it actually help to be in water?

thanks

[Ball Racing]

You are running it in gear on the hard?
I would'nt leave it in gear long , if at all, if no water is available to lubricate the cutlass.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Originally Posted by hanleyclifford

The odd thing about this job (so far) is that the cutlass bearing only showed about 1/16" to maybe 1/8" slop on the shaft. e ICW.

The sort of acid test for the cutless (is it cutless or cutlass?) bearing is lateral movement of the shaft in the bearing. No lateral movement is good. Hanley is implying that a little movement is OK???? - I guess anyway. He can comment on this.

As you discovered lack of water lubrication will make it squeal and as mentioned will lead to wear on the cutless\shaft.

TRUE GRIT

[Whippet]

Originally Posted by Ball Racing

You are running it in gear on the hard?
I would'nt leave it in gear long , if at all, if no water is available to lubricate the cutlass.

Not intentionally. Shifter in neutral but have a sense shaft is still turning. I will investigate more when return to boat. Appreciate advice not to do a lot of testing on the hard.

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Whippet

Didn't expect to see a cutlass discuss on A4 site but glad it's here.

I just fired up my C&C27 after its long winter's nap. A new surprise that wasnt there in the Fall: A lot of screaching coming from Cutlass at start up. but appears to go away when I give it more RPMs.

I really, really don't want to deal with this until next winter. Any advice here if i will do some permanent damage if i procrastinate? what is worse case? score the shaft? does it actually help to be in water?

thanks

Whippet,
A dry cutlass will screech...just don;t make a long run on it on the hard. If you grab the prop and there is just a tad movement it should be good...there generally is some play or it would be binding. I had a machinist check mine and he just gave it a shake and showed me what it good. We walked to a couple of boats to find a "bad" one but there were none that needed repair. I have moved a bad one in the past and there was significant play when shook...much like a wheel bearing gone almost to the point of crystallizing...that's allot of movement. Note that some play is OK and normal...sloppy is not good. I haven't had to touch mine in the 6 years that I've had the boat. Mine screeches too if I don't put the hose to it prior to start up....the cutless is likely fine.
[YOUTUBE]aoihuq_5sW0[/YOUTUBE]
If there is an experienced sailor around where the boat is have him give it a shake. They will rattle and bang when the boat is in the water when they are on the way out. If you give it a shot of water with a hose the screech will go away. Can spray something "thin filmed" oil based in there as well...ie WD40 or other lubrication spray. Running in gear a minute, check your shaft for a wobble...once lubricated it will sound like the above video.

Note: If you put an anode on the shaft as I did ensure to lock the threads with lock-tight. As the zinc corrodes the torque on the bolts is reduced and they work their way free....FYI

[Whippet]

Thanks Mo

I appreciate the advice about giving it shot of thin lube or at least water.

My shifter is on the pedestal and i think these are know to have a small "neutral" range so why i am getting some turning.

PS i am using your Spring check-list to get ready for launch. You are a gem.

[hanleyclifford]

Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON

The sort of acid test for the cutless (is it cutless or cutlass?) bearing is lateral movement of the shaft in the bearing. No lateral movement is good. Hanley is implying that a little movement is OK???? - I guess anyway. He can comment on this.

As you discovered lack of water lubrication will make it squeal and as mentioned will lead to wear on the cutless\shaft.

TRUE GRIT

If someone would say, I would love to know what is the allowable tolerance on a cutlass bearing. BTW, I never run my engine on the hard with prop shaft connected; you should always separate the drive coupling. You cannot effectively lubricate with a garden hose and I am skeptical about applying any oil to the bearing since it could be vulnerable to a chemical reaction and thus shorten the life of the cutlass.

[ndutton]

Liquid dish soap.

[romantic comedy]

I just block from the prop to the boat, to stop rotation, when running dry. Works on my boat anyway.

I do usually have the shaft disconnected anyway, just for alignment checks. And check it again when in the water.

Hanley, the ICW ate up a new cutlass on my trip south. 1000 miles and it was shot.