Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Electrical

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 24.113.14.223
Old 08-02-2021, 09:43 PM
2dogsnight's Avatar
2dogsnight 2dogsnight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lakebay, WA
Posts: 248
Thanks: 44
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
replacing generator with an alternator

have 1958 A4 with a generator rewired for 12V system, new bearings, still 3 brushes. Motor was used max 4 hours since partial rebuild. A week ago finally got my boat in the water, travel 25 minutes, charge to battery was 14.5V then wend up to 15.8V.
Leaving the boat I did forget to turn the ignition switch off. Next day the charge to battery was 12.2V After cleaning brushes, stator, various wires the charge is now 12.9V going to 12.2V after 10 min. Taking the generator to the shop tomorrow.
Friend told me : get a GM 2 wire alternator and replace old generator...good - bad idea?....

Name:  atomic4.jpg
Views: 1200
Size:  135.3 KB
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 24.113.14.223
Old 08-02-2021, 10:04 PM
2dogsnight's Avatar
2dogsnight 2dogsnight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lakebay, WA
Posts: 248
Thanks: 44
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Atomic is in 1955 plywood boat, 18' Fontana

Name:  IMG_6213.JPG
Views: 1098
Size:  58.9 KB
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 138.207.177.95
Old 08-03-2021, 08:05 AM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
This very website sells alternators for Atomic 4s
Even a stock 35 amp A4 alternator would be a big improvement. I am not sure if any brackets will need changing.
Do NOT just buy any random alternator. Even if you can get it to fit on the engine, it will be dangerous. You must get a MARINE alternator with ignition protection.

Last edited by joe_db; 08-03-2021 at 08:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to joe_db For This Useful Post:
2dogsnight (08-06-2021)
  #4   IP: 155.186.122.195
Old 08-03-2021, 10:27 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
Question Choice

2dogsnight, been a while since I've seen you here and I remember your launch for sure.

If you want the nostalgia maintained I'd stick with the generator as it was from that period. You also have a few spare parts and should be able to track down parts needed as it was a "common" generator.

If you wish to update the simplicity and quiet of an alternator is a plus as well as the reliability factor.

I see it as a choice of nostalgia maintained or modernization of something tried and true.

I'd go old school and try to keep the generator.

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dave Neptune For This Useful Post:
2dogsnight (08-06-2021)
  #5   IP: 138.207.177.95
Old 08-03-2021, 07:27 PM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
2dogsnight, been a while since I've seen you here and I remember your launch for sure.

If you want the nostalgia maintained I'd stick with the generator as it was from that period. You also have a few spare parts and should be able to track down parts needed as it was a "common" generator.

If you wish to update the simplicity and quiet of an alternator is a plus as well as the reliability factor.

I see it as a choice of nostalgia maintained or modernization of something tried and true.

I'd go old school and try to keep the generator.

Dave Neptune
It should be possible to adapt a modern regulator to the generator if needed, but IIRC you are lucky to get 15 amps out of those things.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to joe_db For This Useful Post:
2dogsnight (08-06-2021)
  #6   IP: 174.246.16.69
Old 08-04-2021, 02:14 PM
2dogsnight's Avatar
2dogsnight 2dogsnight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lakebay, WA
Posts: 248
Thanks: 44
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Hi Dave !!
Yes, it's been 2 years since my last post.
I am running my boat every day for 15 minutes or so rides. Motor runs great. It's great little boat and very unique. Those fiberglass cookie cutters boats have no souls.
My little generator was diagnosed with one of the brushes not touching stator enough......and fixed by same shop that did the rebuild.
My hopes for good outcome were great. Unfortunately my little generator is putting out 12.5V at 1100rpm and 12.8 -9V at 1500rpm. I believe this is enough to keep battery charged.
I would like to keep the generator because it's an original and has it's place in current setting. ......and it's enough to charge battery, run position lights and possibly keep cell phone charged.
Alternator guy can however fix up modern alternator, marines it, diameter wise close to original generator.
I am planning to use generator this season and we will see what ideas winter will bring.
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 174.246.16.69
Old 08-04-2021, 02:20 PM
2dogsnight's Avatar
2dogsnight 2dogsnight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lakebay, WA
Posts: 248
Thanks: 44
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
This old tugboat stopped by to check out my boat and chat. I felt very special
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 138.207.177.95
Old 08-04-2021, 05:26 PM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogsnight View Post
Hi Dave !!
Yes, it's been 2 years since my last post.
I am running my boat every day for 15 minutes or so rides. Motor runs great. It's great little boat and very unique. Those fiberglass cookie cutters boats have no souls.
My little generator was diagnosed with one of the brushes not touching stator enough......and fixed by same shop that did the rebuild.
My hopes for good outcome were great. Unfortunately my little generator is putting out 12.5V at 1100rpm and 12.8 -9V at 1500rpm. I believe this is enough to keep battery charged.
I would like to keep the generator because it's an original and has it's place in current setting. ......and it's enough to charge battery, run position lights and possibly keep cell phone charged.
Alternator guy can however fix up modern alternator, marines it, diameter wise close to original generator.
I am planning to use generator this season and we will see what ideas winter will bring.
That is not near enough to charge a battery. If you want to keep the generator I can give you some ideas to get more output out of it.
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 24.113.14.223
Old 08-04-2021, 05:31 PM
2dogsnight's Avatar
2dogsnight 2dogsnight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lakebay, WA
Posts: 248
Thanks: 44
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Joe, I would love to bring the output to previous 14.4V
What do I need to do?

Last edited by 2dogsnight; 08-04-2021 at 10:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 155.186.122.195
Old 08-04-2021, 08:17 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
Well if the brushes are contacting and the windings are still good it is probably the regulator. There are far better regulators available today and adapting one to suit should not be to difficult.

Joe may have a few ideas as he seems pretty well versed on charging. And as long as the generator is good achieving a good charge with an adjustable regulator. Your charging needs are very minimal and easily achievable.

Good luck keeping it original.

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dave Neptune For This Useful Post:
2dogsnight (08-06-2021)
  #11   IP: 24.113.14.223
Old 08-04-2021, 10:18 PM
2dogsnight's Avatar
2dogsnight 2dogsnight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lakebay, WA
Posts: 248
Thanks: 44
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Thank you Dave,
Saw regulator that look very similar to mine.....I think the price was $210-
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 138.207.177.95
Old 08-05-2021, 07:41 AM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogsnight View Post
Joe, I would love to bring the output to previous 14.4V
What do I need to do?
The first thing you need to do is decide how bad you want a generator. Adding an alternator is going to be cheaper than almost anything but the very easiest repairs to your existing system.

If you want to keep the generator then we'll have to do some digging. The connections are not as simple as an alternator. Can you read the model number from that plate?

Last edited by joe_db; 08-05-2021 at 07:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to joe_db For This Useful Post:
2dogsnight (08-06-2021)
  #13   IP: 24.113.14.223
Old 08-05-2021, 11:38 AM
2dogsnight's Avatar
2dogsnight 2dogsnight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lakebay, WA
Posts: 248
Thanks: 44
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Would like to see how much repair to existing unit would be.
Model # GAS 4196 8L
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 138.207.177.95
Old 08-05-2021, 12:20 PM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogsnight View Post
Would like to see how much repair to existing unit would be.
Model # GAS 4196 8L
So far I figured it was made in August 1956. This is going to be a bit of a challenge.
If you just want the 100% original generator fixed, I would ask the local antique car guys who they go to.
Adapting a modern regulator to it will not be exactly '56 style, but it might work better.

Can you identify the connections on the generator itself? There may be an F and A, which would be useful.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to joe_db For This Useful Post:
2dogsnight (08-06-2021), Dave Neptune (08-05-2021)
  #15   IP: 138.207.177.95
Old 08-05-2021, 01:20 PM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
Actually we should learn what we are dealing with:
Can you provide:
1. Battery voltage at rest.
2. Battery voltage right after starting the engine.
3. Battery voltage 10 minutes after starting the engine.
4. Battery voltage with all lights on.
Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 174.246.50.218
Old 08-05-2021, 02:10 PM
2dogsnight's Avatar
2dogsnight 2dogsnight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lakebay, WA
Posts: 248
Thanks: 44
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Joe, I will have all that in few hours !
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 138.207.177.95
Old 08-05-2021, 02:43 PM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogsnight View Post
Joe, I will have all that in few hours !

I was ignoring my own advice - never go repairing before going measuring or you fix stuff that ain't broke
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 138.207.177.95
Old 08-05-2021, 04:04 PM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
https://dynamoregulators.com/documen...olite-data.pdf

FYI
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to joe_db For This Useful Post:
2dogsnight (08-06-2021)
  #19   IP: 32.211.28.40
Old 08-05-2021, 04:59 PM
Al Schober's Avatar
Al Schober Al Schober is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Uncasville, CT
Posts: 2,002
Thanks: 16
Thanked 578 Times in 405 Posts
As for keeping it 'original', you're already a long way from there! That engine and generator were originally 6V. The A4 went to 12V in 1963.
Reply With Quote
  #20   IP: 24.113.14.223
Old 08-05-2021, 08:22 PM
2dogsnight's Avatar
2dogsnight 2dogsnight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lakebay, WA
Posts: 248
Thanks: 44
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
Actually we should learn what we are dealing with:
Can you provide:
1. Battery voltage at rest.
2. Battery voltage right after starting the engine.
3. Battery voltage 10 minutes after starting the engine.
4. Battery voltage with all lights on.
12.2 V
12.2 V
12.8 V
12.7 V
Reply With Quote
  #21   IP: 24.113.14.223
Old 08-05-2021, 08:26 PM
2dogsnight's Avatar
2dogsnight 2dogsnight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lakebay, WA
Posts: 248
Thanks: 44
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Schober View Post
As for keeping it 'original', you're already a long way from there! That engine and generator were originally 6V. The A4 went to 12V in 1963.
Everything looks original......yes, 12V and electronic ignition.
Reply With Quote
  #22   IP: 104.174.83.118
Old 08-05-2021, 09:56 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Depending on your goals there may be a strong case for staying with the generator. If you consider your launch a classic showpiece and want to keep it as era-correct as possible, I vote for the gen.

Here's my experience:
Last year I treated myself to a classic muscle car, a future retirement gift to myself. I frequent casual cruise-in car shows and receive favorable reviews but a comment that's repeated at nearly every show is, "WOW, is that an original air conditioning compressor? That's COOL!" There are a thousand other things they could notice but the vintage, horse power robbing Harrison AC compressor gets a lot of attention.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
2dogsnight (08-06-2021)
  #23   IP: 24.113.14.223
Old 08-06-2021, 12:00 AM
2dogsnight's Avatar
2dogsnight 2dogsnight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lakebay, WA
Posts: 248
Thanks: 44
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
I just want to make it work
Reply With Quote
  #24   IP: 104.174.83.118
Old 08-06-2021, 12:32 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogsnight View Post
I just want to make it work
In that case scrap the nostalgia and get an alternator. To keep the installation as simple as possible I recommend a Delco 10Si single wire, self excite. Put it on the engine, connect one battery cable to the output and you're done with it.

Well, almost done with it. Check the output voltage. These days higher outputs in the range of 14.7 to near 15 volts are increasingly popular but can wreak havoc with our ignition systems. The 10Si has an internal fixed point regulator that can be changed to something a little tamer, like around 14.2V. Changing the regulator is not difficult in experienced hands. Inexperienced hands however . . . .

Pick your battles
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
2dogsnight (08-06-2021)
  #25   IP: 24.113.14.223
Old 08-06-2021, 04:52 AM
2dogsnight's Avatar
2dogsnight 2dogsnight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lakebay, WA
Posts: 248
Thanks: 44
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Checked brushes pushing them with a stick to make sure that they are touching, but no change.
Looking at 1 wire alternators. There is one with tach wire for Mericruiser that came up in one wire search. $86 same as 1 wire alternators. Would like to have a marine one.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alternator blown? marginal Electrical 24 09-04-2014 09:57 AM
Another blown alternator diode TomG Electrical 11 06-24-2011 02:15 PM
Alternator operation ndutton Electrical 30 06-16-2011 08:36 AM
Alternator Issues Capt Don Q Electrical 9 12-04-2009 01:55 AM
Battery Switch: Field Disconnect Protection SEMIJim Electrical 12 04-30-2009 01:55 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved