#1
IP: 73.38.252.14
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Batteries
A little off topic maybe, but what are most of you using for batteries onboard?
Thanks, mike |
#2
IP: 107.0.6.150
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group 31, flooded, deep cycle
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#3
IP: 73.255.216.151
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group 24 starting battery lead acid flooded
Trojan 6 volt deep cycle lead acid flooded (golf cart size) I think that they are T-105 Last edited by romantic comedy; 06-04-2016 at 10:43 PM. |
#4
IP: 108.90.160.12
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Have mix of 2 group 27s and a Group 24 starter battery. All of unknown age but still working well as I got them with the boat 3 years ago. All the battery trays and wiring is new though and I am waiting for the 27s to die so I can put in some golf cart batteries.
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Gary 78' Catalina 30 #1179 www.svknotaclew.wordpress.com |
#5
IP: 132.147.29.249
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Gel 31 for house and gel U1 for start. Note gel is NOT the same as AGM
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#6
IP: 24.152.132.65
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Mike, please consider your current charging system if thinking of changing your battery type. Said another way, changing the battery type may require a complete charging system change for the new batts to perform well. I learned this the hard way. The dimension of AGM's solved a fitment problem and I'd read only wonderful reviews of them, deep cycling, 3X life, faster recharge and they would would fit where I wanted to put them, a perfect solution @ $240.00 per.
Yeah, until I spent a weekend at Catalina. What all the glowing reports didn't say was the AGM preferred a higher charging voltage and different charging profile than my system (that worked well with conventional flooded batteries) delivered. Hours of engine run time produced a poor recharge, the battery lasted barely 2 hours after recharging, refrigeration shut down (low voltage shut down protection circuitry), lighting was dim, water pump barely ran at all. I decided I was unwilling to spend more on a new charging system just to make these expensive batteries perform up to the advertising claim - - or even back to the level of the old batteries we've all used in the past. As you can surmise, I continue to use conventional flooded batteries.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 06-05-2016 at 09:42 AM. |
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hanleyclifford (06-05-2016), sastanley (06-07-2016) |
#7
IP: 107.0.6.150
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At $240 a pop the fancy stuff would have to last over twice the time of the el cheapo flooded - and perform. Dollar for dollar and amp hour for amp hour I don't see how you beat the boutique flooded 31s.
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sastanley (06-07-2016) |
#8
IP: 24.152.132.65
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Quote:
The good news was I only bought one AGM, not an entire boat's worth. It now sits on my spare engine stand in starting duty.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#9
IP: 108.90.160.12
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I work for the phone company and we started putting new gen batteries at all our "critical" locations. You are dead on about the recharge rate as the same amp hours in battery bank required many more rectifiers to feed initially causing very high loads on the power supply and heat failures as well as harness failures etc. Sure the cells last 10 years as apposed to 4 or 5 years but the power plants had to be expanded or replaced to adjust for the new cells, in the end costing well over 10 years of battery bank prices for lead acid would have. Turned out to be overkill on retrofitting but for new plant its ok.
Same applies to boats imo, when it takes decades to recover sunk cost it is not that good of a deal. I prefer to let early adopters take it in the shorts. The sales lady for the battery manufacturer was a pretty lady, sure that had nothing to do with spending millions on the batteries though, remember sitting in class asking "but what about that charge constant chart and loading of the rectifiers" got a dirty look.....
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Gary 78' Catalina 30 #1179 www.svknotaclew.wordpress.com Last edited by The Garbone; 06-05-2016 at 01:03 PM. |
#10
IP: 108.31.90.116
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Two Gr 31 gels paralleled into a single 194AH bank (per Nigel Caulder), and a U1 gel for starting. Very similar to joe_db's setup.
When charged with the proper profile, and never discharged below 50%, they have about twice the lifetime of AGMs. I got 12 years(!) of service out of the last set, although capacity was definitely degraded in the last year. Still not quite the bang-per-buck of flooded cells, but close. And beats AGMs easily. Comparison data from East Penn/Deka
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@(^.^)@ Ed 1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita" with rebuilt Atomic-4 |
#11
IP: 132.147.29.249
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Yes - gels can charge faster than wet cells, which is both good and bad. One bad effect is your charging system sees lower internal resistance and a basic charger can overload itself.
AGMs can also charge faster, so you may see the same effect Quote:
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#12
IP: 24.145.95.218
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FWIW, I had occasion to look, up close and personal, at a Duffy electric boat recently. The boat was packed with twelve 6-volt batteries.
Is there an advantage to pairing up 6-volt batteries instead of using the 12-volt alternative? All were wet cells, BTW. Duffy offers a remarkably expensive "single point" system for topping off the wet cells. They'll sell you that, but don't ask for a compass. Bill Last edited by Administrator; 06-05-2016 at 07:03 PM. |
#13
IP: 32.211.28.40
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Engine start is Gp 24 flooded. House is 2 of Gp 31 flooded. 65A alternator controlled by Balmar (series IV?), feeds to the house bank. A combiner sends charge to the start battery.
The Gp 31s are getting old and tired - probably down to 60 or 70% capacity. I'm thinking of replacing them with 3 of Gp 24 flooded - those Gp 31s are just too heavy! |
#14
IP: 108.90.160.12
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Quote:
__________________
Gary 78' Catalina 30 #1179 www.svknotaclew.wordpress.com |
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Administrator (06-05-2016), sastanley (06-07-2016) |
#15
IP: 73.255.216.151
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Bill, I always figured that weight and size were the issue with 6 volt vs 12 volt.
I use the Trojan T 105 6 volts. I had two L-16 (I think) 6 volts batteries. They were tall and 125 pounds a piece. Called traction batteries. I have also seen batteries where you have each cell removable. I have seen one boat that had Rolls batteries t hat were this way. Ever see the ads in the magazines? You buy them by the 2 volt cell. |
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Administrator (06-05-2016) |
#16
IP: 24.145.95.218
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RC:
I think these batteries were Trojans. Bill |
#17
IP: 206.125.176.3
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Just to add more data to the thread, I am running two flooded Gr29's (which just fit where I put the new trays, Gr31s have the same footprint but are taller), paralleled like Ed & Joe for 230 Ah. And a single Gr24 start battery, which I finally had to replace as the one in this pic came with the boat.
The only thing I am really running electrically is charging devices..all lights on the boat are LED except the steaming light. I can barely get the Amp gauge on the electrical panel to move with all lights turned on. I've since cleaned this installation up a little and finished painting the fiberglass work. The white cable is RG-8 for the VHF...I rerouted this around the other side of the boat last spring, so it is cleared out too. I have two small (5w & 3.2w) solar panels..one connected to each "bank" with dedicated cheap regulators & added boots to the third battery too.
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-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) Last edited by sastanley; 06-07-2016 at 11:39 AM. |
#18
IP: 76.71.52.210
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Shawn, I'm trying to visualize where on your C30 you relocated those batteries to? Did you get rid of something ?
Greg |
#19
IP: 71.178.85.60
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Greg, Those are located in the stbd settee, just forward of the chart table. I moved the water tank as far forward as possible to be able to still allow the "seat boards/bilge boards" or whatever they are called to sit flat. That wood in the extreme right of the pic is the forward edge of the chart table looking down.
This adjustment solved the port list problem the older C-30's have with the batteries and all the furniture to port..the boat sits level now! However, this did require a long run of thick cable from the batteries & battery switch around the quarter berth & galley to the engine..so long that I really need to upgrade from 4# to maybe even 1# due to voltage loss..at least on the engine/battery/starter circuit. I occasionally blow the 100 Amp main circuit breaker on long crank events (discussed elsewhere in this forum). I also re-wired the boat to a Catalina 42 12-volt panel I found on eBay (thanks Neil!) that is installed in the chart table during this transition. I STILL have the old 6-switch panel up aft in the galley..it still powers the running lights, which I have not found an elegant way to re-wire without lots of hole drilling, yet.
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-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) Last edited by sastanley; 06-07-2016 at 11:54 PM. |
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gregsails (06-09-2016) |
#20
IP: 71.118.13.238
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Romantic, I have been eyeballing the L-16 due to its capacity vs floor space. Were the ones you used "deep cycle" or std type? Did they seem to get the same life as the 105's?
I get my 105's for free from a neighbor, however the extra capacity of the L-16intrigues me and may be worth the cost. I have seen them called "Sweeper" batteries as well. Dave Neptune |
#21
IP: 73.255.216.151
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Dave,
I got a great discount from West marine in 2000. The batteries are still listed in their catalog. ( At least until 2012, which is the catalog I have in my hand.) They are in their Seavolt line and are called Industrial deep cycle. They may also be called Traction Batteries. My experience was not a good indicator of the batteries potential. I made a great battery box and was happy to have 370 ah. I have a balmer 100 amp alternator and an ARS 3 regulator. Also have a Statpower 20 amp smart charger. My cruising was limited to just weekend over nights or two nights. This was only for one season, and my needs were simple. I had a back injury and was out of commission for a few years. The boat did not leave the dock for at least 2 or maybe 3 years. It sat there and the batteries were hooked to the Statpower 20. One day I found the batteries had no water. This happened fairly quickly, in weeks or a month. The charger had over charged them and the water boiled away. I think it is Hanley that has cautioned people against this situation, with using the charger at the dock. I did not even fool with the batteries, I just removed them. They are still sitting outside, ready for when I need a 113 pound weight. I have 2 T-105s in the boat now. The back is pretty good these days, and I hope to do some long distance cruising soon. I have had thoughts of getting L-16 again, but because they are so heavy, and my back is not what it used to be, I will stay with the 105s, but will add two more if I go cruising. No matter how I plan, I never know when I will have to move the batteries. A line to the boom was very helpful, since they were under the companionway ladder. Bottom line is that I would recommend them. I have always been confused as to why they are not more popular. |
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