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  #26   IP: 50.46.242.202
Old 04-18-2013, 10:56 AM
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Resistor

The resistor's purpose is to reduce the current TO the coil is my understanding.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S View Post
Got the ICR 5500 and will install it and the coil when next at the boat. The NAPA guy told me the resistor goes between the coil and the points, or Ignitor in my case. Makes sense to me. You guys who use the resistor, is that where you put it?

Mark
Mark-
I put mine in front of the coil.
I believe someone else put it before the EI.

There's a discussion about it in the marathon coil thread.
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  #28   IP: 184.0.104.8
Old 04-18-2013, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
There's a discussion about it in the marathon coil thread.
Ok, found it. Neil quoted here in his post #113 in the COIL/RESISTOR thread:
"My resistor is installed just ahead of the coil. One resistor terminal gets the ignition wire from the switch, the other goes to the coil +. Here is the scanner I have.

Full disclosure:
Thatch emailed me a Pertronix diagram he uncovered that showed a ballast resistor. On their drawing the Ignitor module positive (red wire) is connected ahead of the resistor whereas mine is connected after the resistor. My way delivers lower voltage to the ignition module but I don't think it's any big deal. Pertronix specifies 8-16 volts range for their Ignitor so I think we're good either way. Without accurate measurement yet I estimate I'm running at 11 - 11.5 volts to the coil and module (after the resistor). I was unaware of their drawing when I installed my resistor, just did it without regard for the module. It's working fine though, starts instantly and runs smooth.

Stewing on it overnight I think I prefer the slightly lower voltage to the module. It might prolong its life. This is pure speculation. I could just as well start a thread next week on module failure, who knows?"



Here's the page:
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...l+input&page=3
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  #29   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 04-18-2013, 11:28 AM
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Here's the installation drawing I mentioned.

Installing the resistor in the black wire from the ignition module has the same effect of reducing the voltage to the module, contrary to the published instructions. Either way you do it please know that the resistor can be overdone. At around 9 volts to the coil it ceases to function properly. This is why it's important to get the resistor right, enough but not too much. The ballast resistor calculator found in numerous posts eliminates the guessing. It's based on real world testing on an Atomic 4 and builds in a modest 15% safety factor.
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Last edited by ndutton; 04-18-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:17 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Thumbs up Fwiw

I have the Indigo E/I and after running it for around 10 years without a resistor, I called Tom for an opinion. He asked me to try a resistor on mine to see if I could detect any "cold starting or while running issues". The E/I hot feed is on the resisted side with the coil. I never did check the voltage, I just installed the resistor supplied to me. I have been using it for a bit over a year now and did not notice that I had made any changes at all. The E/I will work will with lowered voltages, as long as you stay within suggested voltages. I absolutely did not notice anything and I must say it did suprise me a bit.

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Old 04-18-2013, 01:02 PM
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The A4 is a relatively undemanding engine as far as ignition goes *except for being in a damp/wet environment*. IMHO the biggst gain from EI is that you won't have damp ignition starting issues. If you need the EI just to make your engine work it has issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
I have the Indigo E/I and after running it for around 10 years without a resistor, I called Tom for an opinion. He asked me to try a resistor on mine to see if I could detect any "cold starting or while running issues". The E/I hot feed is on the resisted side with the coil. I never did check the voltage, I just installed the resistor supplied to me. I have been using it for a bit over a year now and did not notice that I had made any changes at all. The E/I will work will with lowered voltages, as long as you stay within suggested voltages. I absolutely did not notice anything and I must say it did suprise me a bit.

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  #32   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 04-18-2013, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
I have been using it (Indigo supplied resistor) for a bit over a year now and did not notice that I had made any changes at all. The E/I will work will with lowered voltages, as long as you stay within suggested voltages.
Your experience mirrors mine, no noticeable change in performance at all.

The difference is Indigo uses a fixed resistance value for all applications whereas we recommended tailoring the resistance to individual situations accounting for alternator output, system voltage drop and existing internal coil resistance all of which vary from boat to boat. I think Indigo's resistor is a little more aggressive than our calculated recommendations but keeping the eye on the prize, as long as the components are protected from destructive influences without performance degradation it's all good.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:06 PM
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Does everyone using the resistors use the start terminal on the solenoid? IIRC that is what it is there for - to bypass the resistor during cranking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Your experience mirrors mine, no noticeable change in performance at all.

The difference is Indigo uses a fixed resistance value for all applications whereas we recommended tailoring the resistance to individual situations accounting for alternator output, system voltage drop and existing internal coil resistance all of which vary from boat to boat. I think Indigo's resistor is a little more aggressive than our calculated recommendations but keeping the eye on the prize, as long as the components are protected from destructive influences without performance degradation it's all good.
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  #34   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 04-18-2013, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
Does everyone using the resistors use the start terminal on the solenoid? IIRC that is what it is there for - to bypass the resistor during cranking.
I do not. It may be of greater importance with a smallish or depleted starting battery where the starter load draws the voltage down significantly. My start battery is an automotive G24 and and to date (fingers crossed) I've had no need for the resistor bypass.

edit:
Please remember, all this resistor talk only applies to coils with insufficient internal resistance at the outset.
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Last edited by ndutton; 04-18-2013 at 01:24 PM.
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  #35   IP: 12.219.49.158
Old 04-18-2013, 01:16 PM
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Tell me more about the start terminal.
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  #36   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 04-18-2013, 01:40 PM
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It's actually the 'R' terminal on the solenoid. It gets battery voltage when the start button is pushed (or key). Some use that voltage to bypass the OPSS for electric fuel pump operation during starting but it can be also used to bypass the ballast resistor during starting as well.

I'd suggest if the R terminal bypass is needed, either the resistor is too aggressive or the combination of battery capacity/condition and wiring harness voltage drop need attention.
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  #37   IP: 96.234.175.34
Old 04-18-2013, 01:49 PM
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In cars with ballast resistors this was what the extra (R) terminal did - boost the spark at startup.

You need to pick one OR the other. If you connect the fuel pump and the coil the OPSS would be defeated.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:14 PM
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Thanks Joe, my post was not clear on that point. Either - Or.
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  #39   IP: 184.0.104.8
Old 04-18-2013, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
Does everyone using the resistors use the start terminal on the solenoid? IIRC that is what it is there for - to bypass the resistor during cranking.
I do not either.
No issues...
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  #40   IP: 74.93.255.9
Old 04-29-2013, 02:39 PM
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Baffled

Hi folks.

I got the Echlin IC14 coil and installed it over the weekend. It measured 3.5 ohms across the terminals and rather than screw around now with the ICR 5500 resistor I just installed the coil normally. I can install the resistor at my leisure another time if I feel I need it.

It may have been wishful thinking on my part when I originally thought the coil needed replacing because the old girl still won't start. I have spark out of the coil (saw it and felt it!) which I think means that everything ahead of the coil is functioning properly. However, I have no spark out of the distributor. I determined this by disconnecting a plug wire and holding the electrode close to the block and having Alicia turn the key, the same way I checked for spark out of the coil.

The rotor and cap are brand new. The wires are brand new. Thinking there may have been a problem with one or the other, I replaced them both with brand new ones. Still nothing. The only things I have ever changed on the distributor since installing the Ignitor are the rotor, cap and wires. I thought maybe the electrode off the coil wire was not inserted into the cap completely so I pulled the boot back and made sure the electrode was inserted fully. Still nothing.

Anybody got any ideas, because I'm stumped.

Mark S
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:04 PM
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I'm drawing a blank of its name. Is the little black ring that fits on the distributor shaft for the EI properly seated? Do you have a spare EI? Dan S/V Marian Claire
Edit: Magnetic ring

Last edited by Marian Claire; 04-29-2013 at 03:13 PM.
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  #42   IP: 199.168.148.136
Old 04-29-2013, 03:22 PM
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Has the distributor been rotated somehow so the spark is occurs while the rotor is between terminals on the cap? Put #1 on compression and have a look see if the rotor is pointing to the right area on the cap.
Best I can do for now.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:29 PM
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Try a old cap and rotor.
I have seen a new cap with the little button not protruding down as much as it's suppose too.
I have also seen a rotor made wrong, and the springy metal strap not making contact with cap.

Also as mentioned if the EI magnetic ring is not down all the way it will not let the rotor seat fully, and it may not be turning.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:38 PM
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Stupid me, I threw out the old cap and rotor before all this stuff arose. I already checked the magnet and it is down all the way. The rotor is seated well, too. Your thought about the button is a good one and it fits the facts. Also the rotor contact. I'll fiddle with those and report back.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:13 PM
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FWIW, a quiock way to check the coil:

Remove the distributor cap and rotor.

Turn on the ignition switch.

You need the points to be in a closed position. Then open and close the points, while holding the coil wire near the ground.

You will see a spark, hopefully.


I have no resistor on the original 1974 coil, so I dont use the terminal on the starter for start up.

BTW, can we just say 3.1 ohms, and not 3.18363538. I dont think we can be that accurate...
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:20 PM
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Thanks, folks, for all the assistance. The blame is all on me, as you shall see. Read on . . .

I got the NAPA coil and installed it. 3.4 ohms across the terminals. I didn't bother to install the resistor, although I have it and may install it another time. I got plenty of spark out of the coil but seemed to have none at the plugs. I gave up last weekend and while toiling in the salt mines during the week I had a Sherlock Holmes moment: "The problem, as we have stated it, is not possible; therefore, we have stated it, in some respect, wrong." Or words to that effect.

I got a neat little gizmo at the local auto parts store that allows you to see inside it the spark coming out of the distributor to the spark plugs. Voila! Spark all along. A little spray of starting fluid and she started just fine . . . until the stuff was all burned off. Then nothing. Did it all again with the same results.

I took apart the fuel lines and am embarrassed to say that the gasoline inside the hoses resembled soy sauce more than gasoline. Out came the fuel lines and the polishing filter, all to be replaced, and off came the carburetor for a good cleaning. I may go all the way, pump out the gas tank, and fill it with fresh.

I've never messed with this stuff before because I've never had a problem with the fuel system, but I guess I threw snake eyes this time. So forget about the oddity of spark out of the coil but not out of the distributor, and chalk it all up to a guy who didn't recognize the obvious and instead pursued a totally impossible theory.

Mark S
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:18 AM
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Smile Fuel problems...simple but uugghhh!

Hi Mark,

It happens. By all means suck everything out of that tank and give it a cleaning if you can. Put new separator and filter and buy a second set to have on the boat. Change out any hose that is old and not ethanol compatible and you should get some worry free service again. Sounds easy to write but take the time and do the best you can with it...it takes time and any portion of the " attention to detail" left to chance comes back to haunt us.
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Old 08-09-2018, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
Neil-
Before I put in my resistor (Echlin ICR 5500) I shot a temp of 200° plus after about a 30 minute run.
Aimed right at the "O" on the FLAMETHROWER label.
Hi Jerry..

Like I said on my other post just dropped by again to take the part number down... There is both a NAPA and Lordco here so I'm sure either of the two will have the resister that I need.

Cheers

Mel
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:46 PM
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old thread but since google keeps finding this ill throw in my 2 cents worth -

check the voltage at the coil when the key is on and points closed - i tested this on a motor last year and got 3.3v!!!

DEF a problem in the ability to supply enough juice- so add this to your checklist when you are having issues-

good info here!
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