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  #26   IP: 24.63.174.78
Old 07-13-2020, 10:25 PM
MightyMike MightyMike is offline
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Got it started today

While waiting for the Zenith service kit to arrive from Moyer, I decided to do another cleaning attempt.

I did not notice the fixed part of the main jet the first time, but I removed it this time and clearly saw the blockage.

After replacing the carb, it fired right up, just as it always has.

I still need to set the idle and main jet correctly, it it doesn't sound too bad as is.

I have two other issues to resolve.

Scavange tube
The drain plug at the bottom of the carburetor.

I am still back ordered on the scavenge tube and the old tube no longer seals at either fitting. JBWELD seemed to work the first time, but not sure if it will hold up to extended use.

Does anyone have thoughts on an alternative?

On the drain plug, the threads are pretty much gone on the carb side. Short of retapping the fitting, can anyone recommend some magic goop that will get me through the season?

I tried some pipe drop and it was not leaking tonight, but I can hand spin it, so I am not feeling very comfortable about that solution.

Again thanks to everyone for their help. I was quite surprised I didn't end up with a yard bill for this.
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  #27   IP: 24.53.89.131
Old 07-14-2020, 11:17 AM
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Did you see this from Dave a few posts back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
Mike, you can use either compression or flare fittings for 1/8 copper tubing. The port in the manifold and the carb are 1/8 NPT std fittings. Easy to fab on your own. The scavenge tube is a very important safety factor for an updraft marine carb!!!

Dave Neptune
Goop on drain - there is no way I would go with goop there. Retap sounds much safer or maybe scrounge up another carb body?

Peter
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  #28   IP: 66.115.145.74
Old 09-08-2020, 01:29 PM
idreamOfSailing idreamOfSailing is offline
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Resetting of Number 1 cylinder

I noticed the cylinders have been wired in reverse from the distributor, meaning the 1-position on the distributor goes to number-4 cylinder, 2-position to number-3, 3-position to number-1 and finally 4-position to number-2 cylinder, so in terms of firing order, correctly I think. If however I were to rewire according to the book, would I simply find the top of true cylinder-1 (first from the flywheel) and connect to distributor position-1 and then follow the usual firing pattern for the other cylinders, or is there something else I should know? My thinking is, since the distributor is firing in correct order there's nothing that needs to change there. Thanks.
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  #29   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 09-08-2020, 07:35 PM
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Dream, I didn't see any mention of rotor position in your post. The distributor post that should be connected to cylinder #1 at TDC is the one the rotor is pointing to, then the remainder are connected following the firing order.
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  #30   IP: 66.115.145.74
Old 09-08-2020, 07:44 PM
idreamOfSailing idreamOfSailing is offline
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Hi Dutton. Thanks for yuor response. I think I did mention it though. I said the position-1 on the distributor, which I take it you're calling position-1 on the rotor, currently goes to the number-4 cylinder. So, if I understand, all I need do is move that wire to the number-1 cylinder at TDC and then move all the other wires to their correct cylinder without changing any of the positions on the rotor. I'd have rotor-1 goes to cylinder-1, rotor-2 to cylinder-2, rotor-3 to cylinder-4 and rotor-4 to cylinder-3. Do I understand correctly?
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  #31   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 09-08-2020, 08:06 PM
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We may be talking about the same thing but maybe not. With the spark plug wires unchanged yet, when the #1 cylinder is at TDC (top of compression stroke, not top of exhaust stroke), lift the distributor cap and report which distributor post the rotor points to. That is, the post it points to has the spark plug wire going to which cylinder?
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  #32   IP: 66.115.145.74
Old 09-08-2020, 08:46 PM
idreamOfSailing idreamOfSailing is offline
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I see what you mean now. Mine is electronic ignition and I have never opened it so would removing the distributor cap tell me the same story as for a non-electronic system?
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  #33   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 09-08-2020, 08:57 PM
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Yes, both have rotors.
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  #34   IP: 47.142.133.234
Old 09-08-2020, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idreamOfSailing View Post
Hi Dutton. Thanks for yuor response. to . Do I understand correctly?


I don't think you do.
You need to do what Neil said - verify the position of the rotor when #1 is at TDC compression.
If you change the position of the wires on the distributor cap, without rotating the distributor, and keep the same firing order, the spark will occur at the wrong time even though the firing order is correct.
Maybe I am not visualizing this correctly?

ex TRUE GRIT
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  #35   IP: 66.115.145.74
Old 09-09-2020, 01:33 PM
idreamOfSailing idreamOfSailing is offline
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I get it. I need to see which post the rotor inside the distributor is pointing to when the true number-1 cylinder is at TDC. That post will be my new number 1 and the rest follow suite. Now, does the rotor spin clock-wise or anti like the flywheel?
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  #36   IP: 24.53.89.131
Old 09-09-2020, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idreamOfSailing View Post
I get it. I need to see which post the rotor inside the distributor is pointing to when the true number-1 cylinder is at TDC. That post will be my new number 1 and the rest follow suite. Now, does the rotor spin clock-wise or anti like the flywheel?
It goes clockwise

Peter
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  #37   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 09-09-2020, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idreamOfSailing View Post
I get it. I need to see which post the rotor inside the distributor is pointing to when the true number-1 cylinder is at TDC. That post will be my new number 1 and the rest follow suit
Yes, exactly.
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  #38   IP: 162.253.71.45
Old 09-10-2020, 09:04 AM
idreamOfSailing idreamOfSailing is offline
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Thanks everyone. Like MightyMike who started this thread, the issue is I cannot get her to start after a carb rebuild so I have been following this thread with great interest. I pretty sure I'm getting gas to the carb as the fuel pump works and the plugs smell gassy so for that reason I'm moving on to checking for spark and compression (I'm thinking the latter is okay as she ran fine before the carb rebuild and don't see why that would change), and will test back from the plugs to the coil. That's why I'm thinking ahead about timing as well, if there's no issue with spark then that has to be the reason. Does this sound like reasonable logic?
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  #39   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 09-10-2020, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idreamOfSailing View Post
. . . . . . the issue is I cannot get her to start after a carb rebuild . . . . . . I'm thinking ahead about timing as well, if there's no issue with spark then that has to be the reason. Does this sound like reasonable logic?
No, not to me. The engine ran, you rebuilt the carb and now the engine doesn't run. The logical place to start is with the only thing that was touched since it last ran - the carburetor. This assumes there has been no change or manipulation of the ignition system since it last ran. If there has you may be dealing with multiple issues.
Q1: is there fuel in the carburetor bowl, yes or no?
Q2: is the idle air adjustment screw pre set at the default position, 1˝ turns off the seat?
Q3: is the choke closing fully?
Q4: are the carburetor halves seated together properly?
Q5: is the carburetor properly mounted to the manifold flange?
Q6: have you kept the raw water intake thru-hull closed during no-start cranking?

edit: here's a brief thread from 10 years ago:
https://www.moyermarineforum.com/for...ead.php?t=4288
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Last edited by ndutton; 09-10-2020 at 09:25 AM.
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  #40   IP: 162.253.71.237
Old 09-10-2020, 09:29 AM
idreamOfSailing idreamOfSailing is offline
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I had it "professionally" rebuilt so assuming it was done correctly.

Q1: is there fuel in the carburetor bowl, yes or no? How do I check for that?
Q2: is the idle air adjustment screw pre set at the default position, 1˝ turns off the seat? I will check that. I assume the default position is screwed in all the way?
Q3: is the choke closing fully? Yes.
Q4: are the carburetor halves seated together properly? Looks okay.
Q5: is the carburetor properly mounted to the manifold flange? Looks okay.
Q6: have you kept the raw water intake thru-hull closed during no-start cranking? She's on the hard so no need?
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Old 09-10-2020, 09:54 AM
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Q1: the easy way to check for fuel in the bowl is to remove the main passage plug on the bottom of the carb and see if fuel dribbles out.
Q2: the idle air mixture screw default position is 1˝ turns off the seat
Q3: (choke position) how do you know? To confirm, the choke plate must be visually inspected with the backfire flame arrestor removed.
Q's 4,5&6: good

Q7: do you have a Moyer Marine manual? Somehow I'm thinking not. Everything we are discussing is covered in detail in Chapter 4 including pictures. You also might consider the Moyer Marine carburetor video, perhaps their ignition video too. There's an impressive quantity and quality of information available from Moyer resources.
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  #42   IP: 162.253.71.237
Old 09-10-2020, 10:35 AM
idreamOfSailing idreamOfSailing is offline
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I know the choke functions correctly because I did that myself, ordering the replacement cable from moyer then checking through the hole where the flame arrestor goes when installing it.

You are right, I don't have a manual though I have scoured the net for videos, which I find more helpful than pictures.

Then of course there's this forum which has so far been very patient.

If removing the carburetor isn't that difficult (it's really tight on the boat and half the time I'm working blind, feeling where bolts and such are or working with the aid of a mirror) then I may remove it personally to verify the work done. But first I will try adjusting screw settings and checking for ignition problems as mentioned before. I want to be certain it's not the carb before I try to remove it.
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  #43   IP: 155.186.124.219
Old 09-10-2020, 11:00 AM
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Try a bit of "motor crack" (starting fluid). Give the throat of the carb a spritz and then try starting. If she kicks a tries you have a carb problem if she just turns over you have a spark problem.

I'd also give the plugs a look. They may have some fuel on them but you need to look to see if there are any water droplets from excessive cranking the cylinders being wet is the problem. It does not take much moisture at all!!!!

Dave Neptune
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Old 09-10-2020, 12:31 PM
idreamOfSailing idreamOfSailing is offline
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Success! I checked that the carb is getting gas by removing the plug at the bottom-back and adjusted both the fuel mix and idle screws as directed. Then tried to start. It didn't at first, trying several times and the last time I thought it sounded like she was about to go, so I tried one more time and vroom off she went. Hopefully it's not a one-time event!

Was draining the carb and adjusting the screws all it needed? Anyway, I was able to run a bucket of anti-freeze through her and spray the carb with fogging oil (you need to do all that here up north in Toronto, Ontario).

I still want to go through the exercise of checking spark and timing since it's good to know how to do that but at least I know she CAN start and run. And over winter I may just well remove the carb and refit it as well, again just to know how to do that. Thanks so much to all who contributed!
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Old 09-10-2020, 11:12 PM
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As my friend would say, “woo-hoo” :)
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Old 09-12-2020, 03:18 PM
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Congrats. You did not mention this in the verbiage but some owners of "late" model A4's do not realize that they are sometimes winterizing only the exhaust manifold thru the by-pass hose. My only thought was with the difficulty in getting the engine to start you may have not run it enough to get to temperature "closing" the t-state and or clamping the by pass hose forcing the glygol thru the block? Just a precautionary thought.
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Old 09-12-2020, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idreamOfSailing View Post
I still want to go through the exercise of checking spark and timing since it's good to know how to do that but at least know how to do that
Remember to service the distributor advance under the breaker plate also.

ex TRUE GRIT
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  #48   IP: 104.206.13.35
Old 09-14-2020, 02:20 PM
idreamOfSailing idreamOfSailing is offline
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Hi John, sorry, what is the distributor advance?
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Old 09-14-2020, 08:11 PM
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The distributor advance is located underneath the plate that the electronic ignition module is located on.

Under there you will find some springs and some weights. These all need to be able to move freely. A little light lubricating coil will suffice if it all looks pretty clean.

Otherwise, you may wish to take it apart, clean it up and possibly replace the springs - they are available from Moyer but you need to be sure you get the correct springs for your distributor. A call to Moyer is recommended.

Peter
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  #50   IP: 104.206.13.37
Old 09-15-2020, 10:42 AM
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So I think you're talking about INSIDE the distributor once the cap is removed, correct?
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