1972 E27-Fixing Everything

[CajunSpike]

Its very possible the cause of this is just that I left it slightly open on initial startup.

It was a long run coming back to the dock. Enough to get the engine definitely up to running temp.

I feel that any choke that that point probably would be too much for the engine when fully warm, to fire off easily.

The reason why the choke is in my mind is because I just hit the key the 1st restart try. No start. Glanced real quick and saw choke lever not full out but not full in either. Slapped it in and did crank again. No go and by that time I was committed to catching the boat or hitting something.

Choke/key/gauges are inside the cabin. Steering position is outside.

The only strange thing about this train of thought is that I stopped and started the engine several times to reposition to wind during the trip. Had no problem on those occasions. However this run was much longer than any of the reposition runs and I probably idled it lower then the other times.

The literal heat exhaustion was too much to try to diagnose at that time.

I'll say it again. Sincere thanks for all your comments and input.

[ndutton]

Choke/key/gauges are inside the cabin. Steering position is outside.

I think you just learned the shortcomings of that arrangement.

[CajunSpike]

Neil you strike me as a person I'd enjoy spending the day with, just learning.

And I'm sure there are a good number of others here that it applies to as well.

May see if I can make a run to the boat after work one day this week to get the power hooked up and do a restart try. My job is about 30 minutes from the boat slip.

[ndutton]

Neil you strike me as a person I'd enjoy spending the day with, just learning and I'm sure there are a good number of others here that it applies to as well

Well, thanks and you're right, a good bunch of guys here. Before you joined, the forum had a meet and greet last year in the Annapolis area. Meeting several of the folks who previously were just names on a monitor was quite a pleasure. The only thing that could have been better was for it to have lasted twice as long.

Good times . . .

[CajunSpike]

If nothing else, you can see the New Orleans skyline and how calm the lake was, last sunday.



The engine gauges and key are to the left side of the cabin opening, just past the door.
Boat just came that way.

Under the blue covering is some non working wind instruments.

I did track the outing but forgot to save the track...go figure.

On the pleasant side, the boat does about 5 knots in calm water at about 1500 rpm, according to cell phone based navionics.
Pushing it to wot gives about 5.5-5.7 knots, so may as well save the gas.

[ndutton]

If you ever decide to rewire your engine, that would be a good time to consider relocating the gauges and controls to the helm. MMI carries all the necessary parts and the forum has several wiring diagrams to help the project along.

[JOHN COOKSON]

(A)I feel that any choke that that point probably would be too much for the engine when fully warm, to fire off easily.

(B)The reason why the choke is in my mind is because I just hit the key the 1st restart try. No start. Glanced real quick and saw choke lever not full out but not full in either. Slapped it in and did crank again. No go and by that time I was committed to catching the boat or hitting something.

(C)Choke/key/gauges are inside the cabin. Steering position is outside.
.

(A) For a properly tuned engine momentary full choke is necessary to start fully warmed up engine.
(B) How are you adjusting the choke? Mine is adjusted so when the button is pushed all the way down to open the choke it springs back up ~1/8" when pressure is taken off of it. If I don't get the slight spring up of the button I know something is wrong with the choke.
(C) Probably deigned by a naval architect that didn't like his\her job.

TRUE GRIT

[tenders]

(A) For a properly tuned engine momentary full choke is necessary to start fully warmed up engine.
(B) How are you adjusting the choke? Mine is adjusted so when the button is pushed all the way down to open the choke it springs back up ~1/8" when pressure is taken off of it. If I don't get the slight spring up of the button I know something is wrong with the choke.
(C) Probably deigned by a naval architect that didn't like his\her job.

TRUE GRIT

A. While choke on warm start may be necessary for an engine tuned to maximize fuel efficiency at cruising speed, CajunSpike's experience is a good illustration why an engine should probably be tuned to minimize gelcoat irregularities. At least mine is. Some textbook's definition of "optimum" be darned, I expect mine to start without choke if warm.

B. That is a good idea; I'd never considered it. Similarly, the Navy method of opening a gate valve "wide open" involves opening it all the way to the valve stop, then closing it a small amount, a quarter turn or so. That reduces the chance of the valve stem sticking, and if you grab the handle as long as the valve isn't closed, it should turn a little bit in either direction as an indication that the valve isn't frozen.

C. Ugh. There's a reason they don't put car gauges in the back seat. Keys and gauges are meant to be operated/seen from the helm.

[CajunSpike]

This is the panel layout....INSIDE the cabin door.



I'm pretty sure ya'll know what each item is.
Directly below this panel(not shown) is a rpm gauge and an engine hour meter.

The choke is a PULL and its on, PUSH and its off type control.
To turn it off, I just push it until it hits the wall.
Inspection on a open choke does show there is no more 'opening' available when the control is pushed in all the way.
Due to the length of the choke cable and the age of the cable(I lubricated it as best I could), it takes a decent amount of pull to close the choke.
A lot less effort to open it.

I remember being surprised the pull wasn't bottomed out, on my first restart attempt. If it behaves as normal, that would mean the choke was slightly open.

You know....just looking at this photo, there is a small rope hanging from the choke pull. It was there since I got the boat. Its conceivable that rope could block
the choke from fully closing if you're not aware of what you're doing. This is its last day on that choke pull.

The other side of this is that the boat came with a tiller, but has had a wheel installed.
So if you're in position behind the wheel, you're that much further from the gauges that you can't see.
And although it now has a wheel, the motor speed and fwd/rev assembly is still on the cockpit side wall where it was when it had a tiller, which is not
in range of the steering position unless you're sitting in front of the wheel.

I just have to keep saying to myself 'this boat was built in the stone age of 1972'.
:-)

[ndutton]

What year is your boat Bill? (Oops, nevermind, it's in your signature) The early 70's Newport 30 and 27 (I think) had their engine controls in the same place.

My Catalina 30 was originally tiller steered, had its engine control panel in the lower port cockpit seat riser. You might have been able to see the gauges sitting on the stbd side and were also guaranteed to kick it sooner or later. After I converted to pedestal steering the gauges were impossible to see so the entire panel was relocated to the upper aft stbd coaming. Way better.

An advantage you have over my relocation is you don't have a hole the size of a legal tablet to repair in the fiberglass.

[tenders]

You could put the tiller back!

Don't blame the technology. Blame some PO for not finishing a big job of wheel conversion.

Most 32s have wheels, or were converted to wheels, but mine still has the tiller and I prefer it. I really like the fact that the aft seat where one would be sitting with a wheel is not where the tiller driver sits. It's a great place for inexperienced sailors to sit - they won't get hit by anything and don't have to do anything, bug aren't banished to the rail.

[ndutton]

After two outings with the tiller the decision was made to go with a wheel. The Catalina 30 is a bear to tiller steer under power, a handful under sail too and accepting the aging process is relentless something had to be done.

[CajunSpike]

Went back to the boat yesterday.
Finished everything I walked away from last time like ropes and power.
Closely examined the choke pull. The rope WAS keeping the choke pull from being fully closed. Rope now gone.

Did a cold start crank using choke.
Fired off like normal.

Add that to the lessons learned.
Will still do some tied up testing to make sure full slow in gear does not kill the motor.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Will still do some tied up testing to make sure full slow in gear does not kill the motor.

With a bit of futzing around I was able to get my idle down to 575-600 RPM. I can shift into and out of gear without touching the throttle and the engine does not die. Handy when docking.

TRUE GRIT

[CajunSpike]

I read about everybody putting their boats up for the winter and I feel sad for them....in a way.

Today was low 70's in New Orleans and if a day was ever specifically made for sailing, this was it.

Sky was crystal blue with not a cloud in sight. Wind started light but picked up nicely. Even with the good breeze though, water never got rough.

I took the E27 out with a 4 year old who was well behaved.

I'm happy to report the motor started easily every time I needed it. Never died on me. Ran pretty flawlessly. Had no issues going fwd/reverse when needed.

Only pulled out the front sail when I started..because the wind was so light. Turns out with that 130% jib, the boat goes pretty good. Was pretty amazed at the 6.5 knots
top speed with only the jib.

Was able to return dock the boat on my own, successfully. I left a rope tied to the inside slip tie downs, laying on the outside pilings. So when I got to the outside piling(easy to do), grabbed the rope to the inside tie down and used it to pull the boat back in. Simple but effective.

Worst thing that happened is the furler rope broke when it was time to go home. Pulled it to furl the jib and the rope came off. Just rolled up the front sail by hand.

Except for the fact I had a child with me, may still be out there. :-)


Track for today. Track is a little short because I didn't start the track till I was already out there.


Stats.


Short video.

http://cajun.dyndns.org:81/seeker/vid_20181103.mp4

None of this would have happened without the kindness and help of you guys.

Thank you.

Any suggestion as to type of rope that works best with the furler....welcome. Its only about the thickness of a straw.