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  #1   IP: 38.118.52.41
Old 11-04-2005, 01:52 PM
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Don Moyer Don Moyer is offline
 
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Thumbs up Winterizing your Atomic 4

Here is a rather free paraphrasing of Chapter 9 (Winterizing) from our service and overhaul manual:

Winterizing an Atomic 4 should not require more than an hour or so. A list of tools and materials is shown at the end of the procedures.

GENERAL:

Moisture-related damage and cracked castings caused by water freezing in water jackets are by far the biggest threats during winter lay-up. While the potential for cracked castings is rather easy to visualize, moisture related damage is somewhat less obvious.

Moisture can lead to corrosion on points which will almost surely cause hard starting in the spring. Moisture also can condense out of the atmosphere within partially filled fuel tanks and cause corrosion in carburetors, pumps, fuel lines, etc. And, even more troublesome, moisture can corrode valve stems enough to cause sticking valves by the time winter has run its course.

In areas where moisture is known to be excessive, it is sometimes necessary remove the plugs and turn the engine over on the starter while adding a bit more Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) to the combustion chambers to prevent sticky valves in the spring.

OIL SYSTEM:

Step 1: Drain oil. Draining oil at this time will set you up for an easy spring startup, since you shouldn't have to drain oil again until next fall (unless you exceed the recommended oil change interval of 50 hours).

NOTE: The next step assumes that there will always be approximately a quart of oil remaining above the intake of the oil pump after draining. If, as you are running the engine in step 2, oil pressure should drop from normal, add a second quart of Mystery oil.

Step 2: Add one quart of Marvel Mystery Oil. Run engine for about a minute to circulate the MMO-rich mixture throughout the oil swept section of the engine. I followed this practice for years to prevent internal corrosion (mainly on bearing surfaces, cylinder bores, and valve stems) and to facilitate re-commissioning in the spring when you need only to add enough new oil to bring the level to the full mark. It will save some time if you can look ahead and set up to accomplish Step 1 of the cooling system section while running the engine in this step.

NOTE: In the years since we originally wrote these procedures, some folks have expressed concern over the use of Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) in the crankcase on a continuing basis. While we still see no downside to leaving up to a quart of MMO in the crankcase during the winterizing process, if an engine is used very little, following our procedure could result in a concentration of MMO in the crankcase (over several seasons) which could exceed "one quart per oil change" as listed in the instructions on the MMO container. In all cases, if oil pressure ever lowers below what has been normal for a particular engine, or if you suspect that you may have more than one quart of MMO in the crankcase, the oil (whatever the mixture) should be removed and the crankcase refilled with straight viscosity 30 weight detergent oil.

FUEL SYSTEM

Step 1: Check all filters, paying particular attention to sumps which can (and should) collect free water if any is present. If any water is discovered, I would definitely take the precaution of draining the bowl of the carburetor as well as the main jet passage. Any moisture in the carburetor will surely turn into a chalk-like muck by spring and cause all kinds of trouble throughout the next season.

NOTE: It would be good to manually operate the fuel pump to refill the carburetor before trying to restart the engine so as to limit starter cranking. All mechanical pumps have a "U" shaped lever hinged below them for this purpose. If that lever feels completely free when you try to pump with it, it simply means that the engine stopped with the cam shaft already deflecting the diaphragm. All you have to do is run the starter for a fraction of a turn and you should then be able to manually operate the pump. If you have an electric fuel pump connected directly to the positive terminal of the coil, you can fill the carburetor by simply leaving the ignition switch on for a few seconds (maybe 10 or so) before attempting to start. If you have an electric fuel pump with an oil safety switch, there's no easy way to refill the carburetor except to bypass the oil safety switch electrically while the ignition switch is on.

Step 2: Top off the fuel tank. Add Mystery Oil as usual and if you've had any moisture problems, you may consider one of the moisture inhibiting fuel additives on the market.

COOLING SYSTEM

Step 1: If you operate in salt water, draw in at least one 5 gallon bucket of fresh water through the "T" fitting (which you should have previously installed between the raw water intake and the intake to your engine driven water pump). When the hose cavitates as the bucket empties, race the engine slightly for a second or two to partially evacuate the block and, more importantly, the exhaust system. This few seconds of running, after the bucket empties, will leave less water behind within the engine to dilute the antifreeze when you draw it in later. If you've installed fresh water cooling, proceed to step three.

Step 2: Remove the two drain plugs in the side of the block behind the starter and alternator, and the single plug in the rear of the exhaust/intake manifold. If crud has settled out behind any of these plugs, it's best to take a wire and open up the area behind the plug holes so as to reestablish drainage. Reinstall drain plugs.

NOTE: In engines with raw water cooling, I always felt it necessary to remove the thermostat prior to step 3 and to temporarily squeeze off the bypass hose to the thermostat housing. This precaution insures that antifreeze has to flow through the block.

Step 3: Draw at least one gallon of recreational type antifreeze in through the "T" fitting previously used to draw in fresh water, or until you see antifreeze come out the exhaust.

Step 4: For early models with thermostat, I recommend drawing in one gallon of antifreeze with the thermostat installed so as to get antifreeze circulated throughout the block and manifold, and then a second gallon with the thermostat removed and re-circulating hose pinched off so as to force the antifreeze through the exhaust system.

UPPER CYLINDER AREAS

Step 1: When all other reasons for running the engine are past, remove all spark plugs. Put several "squirts" of Mystery Oil in each spark plug hole. Attempt to aim the Mystery Oil toward the center of the engine (away from the manifold side of the engine) as opposed to straight down from the spark plug holes, which would be toward the valves.

Step 2: Start the engine and run for just a few seconds. The goal is to shut the engine off in time to let the valve stems coated with Mystery Oil. If you have any RV antifreeze left, you may want to draw it in at this time as in step 3 above. Some antifreeze will be pumped out during the several seconds of running in the final step of the procedure, but this loss of antifreeze won't have any negative impact, since any air left behind cannot freeze.

Needed materials include:

Two quarts of Marvel Mystery Oil.

"Squirt" type of oil can (with Mystery Oil).

Five-gallon bucket.

Two gallons of recreational antifreeze.

Several gallons of fuel, as necessary, to top off tank.

Three 7/16" hex-headed brass 1/8" pipe plugs to replace whatever style of plugs were previously installed in water jackets.

Normal hand tools plus a needle-nose vise grip (in case any of the drain plugs stick).

Best regards,

Don Moyer
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Old 11-20-2006, 02:18 PM
slunga slunga is offline
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antifreeze in the block

Is it possible to remove the rear block drain plug and the thermostat housing and pour antifreeze directly into the block until it comes out the plug and then retighten? Just a thought.
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:49 AM
brakauskas brakauskas is offline
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Winterizing cooling system

I have a 1977 Columbia 8.7 with a later A4. I have some questions on the steps for winterizing the colling system. I have a raw water system in which the past owners would just put the intake hose in a bucket and run antifreeze through the system. I notice that you have extra steps such as removing the drain plugs and and removing the thermostat. If these steps are bypassed what could happen to the engine? If the thermostat is not removed and drain plugs are also not removed will I have water in the block and risk a crack upon freezing?
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Old 11-02-2007, 09:07 AM
tenders tenders is offline
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If the thermostat isn't removed, yes, unless you're sure it's wide open when the antifreeze goes through, it won't circulate in the engine -- it will go straight through the bypass.

With a block properly full of antifreeze, I don't think the drain plugs are so critical. I've never removed mine.

I engineered a special winterizing cap for jugs of antifreeze by mounting a barbed plastic nipple onto one. I install that on the raw water intake, screw a full jug of antifreeze onto it, tip the jug upside down, poke a hole into the bottom of the antifreeze with a marlinspike, and run it through the engine. This gives the antifreeze a little bit of a "head" so the pump doesn't have to lift it out of a bucket.
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Old 11-09-2007, 10:48 AM
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Winter layup without starting engine?

Hi Don,

I intend to follow your winter lay up procedures tomorrow morning on my boat, which is out of the water and on its cradle. In case we have trouble getting it started, how would your instructions be altered to accommodate that? Will the hand crank at the front of the engine suffice to “pull” the antifreeze through the engine?

Thanks,
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Old 11-09-2007, 05:12 PM
Chip Hindes Chip Hindes is offline
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Probably, but why hand crank when you can crank with the starter?

Pull the fuel line first so you don't keep pumping fuel and you can make it really easy by pulling the plugs.

Limit your cranking to no more than about 30 seconds at a time to avoid overheating the starter & wiring or running the battery down too much. If you need to crank more, let everything cool down for five miniutes or so before cranking again.+
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Old 01-24-2008, 11:21 AM
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Winterizing Engine

As an alternative to the formal winterizing process, I was wondering if anyone out there in warmer climes has simply put a light bulb in the engine compartment and started the engine once or twice a week and let it run to temperature. We live 5 minutes from where we intend to keep this boat (if we end up buying it) and thought this might be an easier and less labour intensive alternative.

Is this too risky, or can this work?
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Old 01-11-2010, 03:15 PM
Jim Booth Jim Booth is offline
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[QUOTE=tenders;6529]If the thermostat isn't removed, yes, unless you're sure it's wide open when the antifreeze goes through, it won't circulate in the engine -- it will go straight through the bypass.

With a block properly full of antifreeze, I don't think the drain plugs are so critical. I've never removed mine.

QUOTE]

I forgot to pull the thermostat this year. I just went to the boat and took it out. There was slushy antifreeze on both sides of it (in the hose and in the head). I found one drain plug toward the flywheel end and pulled it. A few drops of liquid came out. It didn't look pink but it's hard to tell with only a few drops.

I have the hose to the thermostat pinched off part way. I think that's a recommended temporary fix to keep the engine cool. Anyway, will that have forced antifreeze into the block even if the thermostat wasn't open fully? It was a cool day when I winterized.

Is there anything else I should do at this stage? I can get to electricity for a temporary space heater but it would take a long time to bring the block above freezing. It has been below 20 for a while with single digit nights.

Thanks,
Jim
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Old 01-11-2010, 03:35 PM
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California ?

Is all this concern applicable to California?
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:22 PM
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Block Heater

Interested in any feedback on using the following block heater for the Atomic 4. I'm in southeastern Virginia and keep the boat in the water year round.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/Magnet-moun...;0;2000836;0;0

Didn't see a block heater on the MM website.

Thanks.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:09 AM
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Wink antifreeze

Does one pump the antifreeze with the Starter Motor or
with the engine running?

Last edited by Blue Eyes; 10-06-2010 at 09:10 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:37 AM
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blue eyes, I would definitely do it with the engine running..if you only use the starter the lack of exhaust pressure would allow water to back in to the engine thru the exhaust...the very reason everyone cautions about closing your intake if you have starting problems..
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:15 AM
nreeves nreeves is offline
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help

I followed the winter lay up directions from chapter 9 of the Moyer A4 book and the first several steps went. I changed the oil, drew antifreeze through the intake. Realized that I had the late model engine and removed the thermostat and did it again. I first forgot to pinch off the by-pass (which may have caused the problem), then realized the mistake and ran some more through with the bypass pinched off. Up until this point, everything worked as planned.

I then took out the spark plugs, sprayed some mystery oil in each hole and tried to start it again. I tried to start is again without the plugs in and it just gave a higher pitch whine, like a car started when it won't turn over. I tried again with the plugs in with a similar result. Each time, I only tried in for 10-15 sec's. I did notice that the intake did take on more fluid and I started one last time with the intake hose out of the antifreeze. The engine would not start. I pulled the plugs on last time and am worried that I may have had a back up of liquid in the system. The plugs did seem to have a faint antifreeze smell.

At this point, I am worried that I may have backed up water or antifreeze into the engine and would like to know how to trouble shoot this. I checked the oil and there seems to be no sign of water so far, but the engine has not run since the last few steps.

As you may have guessed, this is my first season with a boat and a A4. The thing worked like a dream all season and I want to make sure it stays that way. If you have any ideas of how to check the engine to ensure there is no water/antifreeze in the engine, I am all ears!

Thanks!
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:47 AM
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a few comments

re. the above -- there may be alternatives [look in the cylinders if possible or suction them out carefully to see if there's h2o or antifreeze in them?] but at the end of the day -- if it were i, i'd start again and make sure the engine starts and runs normally if i had any doubts -- be sure to have a bucket of water there for cooling if it does run...then i'd just go thru the whole winterization procedure all over again -- all part of the learning process -- the stories i could tell you bout my first yr with the a4!

a few other comments / things i've learned / mods i've made on winterization:

1. last year i changed the oil a few weeks before winter shut down -- refilling with about 1/2 30 wt and the other 1/2 mmo -- then ran the engine gently on the final outings [all in the canal or river here] -- then shut dwon for the winter with that blend still in and changed it to the recommended 30 wt + 1 qt mmo after spring launch --

2. re. antifreeze -- i use the green stuff cuz it has lots of antirust compounds in it [which are not in the pink]...

the results this year were really great -- a4 ran better than ever -- and i really didn't do much else to it -- so i think....

seeing as it sits 5-6 months with no use to speak of -- sitting bathed [marinating?] in mmo [block, etc] and anti-rust [cooling system, etc.] can't "hoit" and may even make up for the summertime abuse...

and finally a few questions:

i know the usual flush liquid is muriatic acid or vinegar...but what about using c.l.r. / lime-away or the various auto-store flush preparations made for auto cooling systems? would love to hear from don on this or anyone who has tried these....
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nreeves View Post
I followed the winter lay up directions from chapter 9 of the Moyer A4 book and the first several steps went. I changed the oil, drew antifreeze through the intake. Realized that I had the late model engine and removed the thermostat and did it again. I first forgot to pinch off the by-pass (which may have caused the problem), then realized the mistake and ran some more through with the bypass pinched off. Up until this point, everything worked as planned.

I then took out the spark plugs, sprayed some mystery oil in each hole and tried to start it again. I tried to start is again without the plugs in and it just gave a higher pitch whine, like a car started when it won't turn over. I tried again with the plugs in with a similar result. Each time, I only tried in for 10-15 sec's. I did notice that the intake did take on more fluid and I started one last time with the intake hose out of the antifreeze. The engine would not start. I pulled the plugs on last time and am worried that I may have had a back up of liquid in the system. The plugs did seem to have a faint antifreeze smell.

At this point, I am worried that I may have backed up water or antifreeze into the engine and would like to know how to trouble shoot this. I checked the oil and there seems to be no sign of water so far, but the engine has not run since the last few steps.

As you may have guessed, this is my first season with a boat and a A4. The thing worked like a dream all season and I want to make sure it stays that way. If you have any ideas of how to check the engine to ensure there is no water/antifreeze in the engine, I am all ears!

Thanks!
I would have cleaned and dried the plugs or swap in another set of plugs.
Check that you still have spark.

Unless you forced water into the engine via a garden hose, a definite no no,
you shouldn't have caused water to enter the engine. Doing it via a
bucket and letting the pump pull its own water / antifreeze is the correct
approach.
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:39 PM
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Starting on the hard

I took my boat out thinking I was going to have it back in before winter, but now I need to winterize it on the hard. What's the best method to do that? I've read through this thread and saw that some recommend cranking on the starter with the plugs out to get the antifreeze through. I don't have a thermostat so I'm not worried about having to to warm up the engine. But I dont want water getting back in to block through the exhaust. Please advise!
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:49 AM
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A few questions on first winterization

I have a 1976 P30 /salt water cooled/ electric fuel pump / oil safety switch / fuel tank already filled up and additives ok / in the water on the Magothy river (mid-Maryland-Chesapeake Bay).

This forum talked me through resolving my fuel related shutdown earlier this year and hopefully I can get some more advice on my first winterizing. I’ve read Don’s instructions and lots of threads and here is how I intend to seduce her:
1. Warm her up, drain oil using the handy oil changer recommended elsewhere on this forum.
2. Add a quart of MMO thru filler cap.
3. Attach a washing machine hose to the “T” fitting on water inlet line.
4. Start engine and run 5 gallons of fresh water out of a bucket and through engine, then a bit extra to clear the exhaust system.
5. Do my darndest to locate the freeze plugs, remove any that I can, clean out the holes with a wire bush and replace.
This part kinda scares me. To be honest, relationship with my new mistress has gotten off to a rocky start as I have not been able to spend much time with her. I did finally get down to see her the other night and hung upside down in the dark poking around (Note: mistress analogy ends here) but am not sure that I ever found her drain plugs. I know that they aren’t the original shiny brass 2 inchers so someone must have replaced them over the last 35 years. Every other mechanical fastener that I have needed to loosen on this boat has been seized tight so I don’t want to strip any threads/screw up anything if I don’t need to.

Question 1: If I eventually get antifreeze out the exhaust after running with thermostat both open and closed, how critical is removing the drain plugs?

6. Fill bucket with antifreeze (I got some blue stuff at WM that is RV/non toxic but supposedly has some rust prohibitors in it) and run engine till it exhausts.
7. Remove thermostat, pinch hose with griplocks over wood strips and run engine again. Drain Racor bow. Drain carb bowl.

Question2: Is this just removing the bolt on the bottom of carb bowl and draining any fuel?

8. Reattach & tighten bowl then jump fuel pump to refill the carb.

Question3: Do I just remove the wires from the oil safety switch and touch them against each other?

9. Remove spark plugs (pray I don’t strip anything)/squirt MMO toward engine center/replace/then crank for a few seconds.
10. Spark plugs back in, hoses reconnected. Mix dark rum with ginger beer and a dash of bitters. Eyes on mistress, celebrate seduction.

Note: I plan on tackling the electrical system at a later date after I find my old Neilson album and figure out what a point is.

Sorry for the lengthy post but hanks in advance for any help.
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:24 PM
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I also have a P30, and I'm in the Rhode River, middle Bay. My previous owner says that as the final step, he'd start the engine and spray MMO fogging oil into the flame arrester/intake until the engine stalls.

Good? Bad? Opinions?
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:50 PM
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Access to drain plugs on your P30

Ajax, in years past, have you been removing your drain plugs? Based on whatever tilt they gave our engines, do you remember which ones that I should spend most of my time/energy on?
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:52 PM
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This is my first winter, so no I don't. I'm in the same boat (literally and figuratively) as you are.

I'm racing the boat until November 20th, so that'll be the earliest that I winterize, unless the threat of a severe freeze comes before then. I plan on crawling into the engine space and investigating all of this before then.
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
I also have a P30, and I'm in the Rhode River, middle Bay. My previous owner says that as the final step, he'd start the engine and spray MMO fogging oil into the flame arrester/intake until the engine stalls.

Good? Bad? Opinions?
Actually this sounds like a pretty good idea; coat the air intake side with a light coating of lightweight oil like MMO or fogging oil. I've never used this as a last step before. I'm not sure that I will do it though as it does not seem to be needed, in my experience.

I'm sure that Loki9 is right and the drain plugs you want to remove are the block drain plugs, not the 'freeze plugs' which are different. It is optimal to be able to drain the block using these plugs if you are able to clear out any crud that may have built up in there. I'll admit that I don't always do this though as the access is poor on my boat (perhaps to my own detriment). I have become accustomed to draining my raw water pump after winterizing and letting it drain over time. Perhaps this winter I'll find the rear block drain plug on my A4 and try to remove it as well.

What is it with all you new P30 owners? Is Pearson still making them?
We raced against one a few years ago that was usually our nemesis on the race course. Good sailing boats.

I hope to get down the the Chessy soon for one last overnight sail.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:07 AM
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Sabina was in a heated shed for 6 years , so it's been a while since I winterized. As best I can remember , I did the following on the hard :

Briefly ran engine , all hoses attached , to belch raw water out of system

Disconnected intake at thru hull and discharge at standpipe , inserted both into bucket of antifreeze

Ran engine until antifreeze in bucket was steamy hot and temp gauge told me that operating temp was reached

Fogged with MMO at spark arrester

Shut down , MMO injected thru spark plug holes

Easy procedure , no drain plugs to fight with , block full of antifreeze until spring start up.

Anything wrong with this procedure?

From the land of -20 F. , Laker
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:52 AM
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I'm not sure 1. If the starter can provide enough rotation for the pump to fill the engine with antifreeze. 2. I wouldn't run the starter any longer than 10 - 15 sec.

I place the end of hose into the bottle of antifreeze and I have another bottle cap off ready to go. Start the engine, wait untill 1st bottle empty, put hose into
into 2nd bottle. When its empty I shut down the engine.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:11 AM
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Smosh ,

If you were responding to my post , I was running the engine , not cranking it.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:26 AM
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I must be getting senile, I thought someone asked if they could antifreeze the engine just with the starter and not running the motor.

Steve
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