Facet fuel pump failures

[Bob N]

I just replaced my fuel pump for the 2d time. The pump I replaced lasted 10 years, so I guess I shouldn't complain too much. The interesting thing is that it just didn't stop working. It died a slow death. We were motoring out to the Chesapeake from our marina a couple of weeks ago and the engine stalled. After a few minutes, it restarted. We turned around to head back and it stalled again. A friend towed up back to our slip. There it restarted. When I went to the boat the next week to trouble shoot, it started right up, rather about 10 minutes, then stalled. The runnning then stalling cycle got shorter and shorter. I found after it finally refused to start that the fuse had blown. Even after replacing it, all I heard when I jumped across the oil safety switch was a dull clunk. Then the fuse blew again.

Fortunately, my wife and I both remember all too well the similar syptoms from 10 years ago. I could have chased after any number of other causes for stalling (like I did then), but a hunch told me it was the pump. But I am surprised that the pump does not just quit. I was surprised at how long the death throes last.

[joe_db]

Thus the reason I have two pumps in series. If one dies it is 10 seconds work to put the other one online

Originally Posted by Bob N

I just replaced my fuel pump for the 2d time. The pump I replaced lasted 10 years, so I guess I shouldn't complain too much. The interesting thing is that it just didn't stop working. It died a slow death. We were motoring out to the Chesapeake from our marina a couple of weeks ago and the engine stalled. After a few minutes, it restarted. We turned around to head back and it stalled again. A friend towed up back to our slip. There it restarted. When I went to the boat the next week to trouble shoot, it started right up, rather about 10 minutes, then stalled. The runnning then stalling cycle got shorter and shorter. I found after it finally refused to start that the fuse had blown. Even after replacing it, all I heard when I jumped across the oil safety switch was a dull clunk. Then the fuse blew again.

Fortunately, my wife and I both remember all too well the similar syptoms from 10 years ago. I could have chased after any number of other causes for stalling (like I did then), but a hunch told me it was the pump. But I am surprised that the pump does not just quit. I was surprised at how long the death throes last.

[edwardc]

Originally Posted by joe_db

Thus the reason I have two pumps in series. If one dies it is 10 seconds work to put the other one online

Unfortunately, the failure mode that I've seen in Facett pumps that causes the failure scenario that Bob describes is that the ball in the pump's check valve starts sticking to it's seat, producing decreased flow, and eventually no flow at all. Once that ball is stuck to the seat, a pump in series isn't going to have any more luck pulling fuel thru than the failed pump.

An easy way to check for a stuck check valve, and effect a temporary repair, is to open the base of the pump and apply light finger pressure to the exposed end of the ball. If it's ok, it should move easily. If its stuck, increased finger pressure will cause it to break free with a pronounced 'click'. It will get you home, but will fail again soon. (Don't ask me how I know this!) .

[joe_db]

Arghhhh - didn't think of that one. I'll have to invent a new plumbing layout. This gives me pause for more than one reason. The pumps we use are the same pumps that are in many Piper airplanes that I fly and they are in series as well. Maybe avgas isn't as sticky?

Originally Posted by edwardc

Unfortunately, the failure mode that I've seen in Facett pumps that causes the failure scenario that Bob describes is that the ball in the pump's check valve starts sticking to it's seat, producing decreased flow, and eventually no flow at all. Once that ball is stuck to the seat, a pump in series isn't going to have any more luck pulling fuel thru than the failed pump.

An easy way to check for a stuck check valve, and effect a temporary repair, is to open the base of the pump and apply light finger pressure to the exposed end of the ball. If it's ok, it should move easily. If its stuck, increased finger pressure will cause it to break free with a pronounced 'click'. It will get you home, but will fail again soon. (Don't ask me how I know this!) .

[ndutton]

Plumb it in parallel rather than series, Tees on the in & out hoses.

[joe_db]

I am assuming they have a check valve that would enable this to work.

Originally Posted by ndutton

Plumb it in parallel rather than series, Tees on the in & out hoses.

[ndutton]

Same one as Ed is talking about. You can test it by blowing into the outlet on the spare pump before installing, shouldn't flow.

[edwardc]

Originally Posted by joe_db

Arghhhh - didn't think of that one. I'll have to invent a new plumbing layout. This gives me pause for more than one reason. The pumps we use are the same pumps that are in many Piper airplanes that I fly and they are in series as well. Maybe avgas isn't as sticky?

I suspect that a long-term reaction between ethanol and the check valve seat is the culprit, although Facet claims their pump is rated to pump diesel, gas, or alcohol. Mine took 3 years to fail this way.

Avgas dosen't have ethanol, so if that's the cause, the Pipers should be fine.

[Bob N]

I replaced the fuel pump. She is running fine now. I even motored around for about 2 hours last weekend (no wind--good time for a test).

The old fuel pump had a small hole in the side (why?)--perhaps 1/64" in diameter. There was a sticky substance oozing out. That suggests something melted down inside.

[msauntry]

My Facet failed a month ago. Smoke pouring out of it and melted rubber oozing from a small hole in it. Didn't perform an autopsy on it, I just replaced it with another from NAPA as quick as I could since I was taking up the marina's haul out slip. I think I replaced it 5 years ago, but I can't swear to that.
5-10 year life span? Eh, I've had worse.

[ndutton]

How old were these failed pumps?

There was an era of defective Facet pumps. Check this out:
http://www.moyermarine.com/facet.htm

[roadnsky]

There's an old post from Don and it relates to the FACET'S 10A fuse...

"Most electric fuel pump manufactures today recommend 5 to 10 amp fuse protection in this circuit, but many engines supplied by Universal in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s (probably several thousand!) were shipped without fuses in this circuit. The Facet Pump Company currently recommends 5 amp fuse protection in this circuit, but many of the earlier Facet pumps had stickers allowing up to 10 amp fuse protection.

This circuit is particularly hazardous due to the “soldering iron” effect. If this circuit is only protected by the 20 amp fuse between the coil and the ignition switch, a partially shorted fuel pump can create considerable heat (equivalent to a soldering iron, hence the name of this process) while only drawing 10 to 18 amps – thereby never blowing the 20 amp fuse. Considerable heat can be generated even at 8 to 10 amps, which is probably why Facet is now recommending 5 amp fusing."

Here's the link to the entire post...
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...ition+shorting

Not saying that's it, but worth looking into?

[msauntry]

Sounds like what I had. I'm not fused, but will be soon. Thanks for the specs!
Micah

[MikeB.330]

My Facet pump failed yesterday afternoon about 5 min after leaving the slip. the engine would restart & run for about 20 sec before stalling again. Fortunately I was able to drift out of the channel & drop anchor to check things out. A quick check revealed that the 10 amp fuse for the pump was blown. I did try jumping the oil Psi switch however it was clear that the pump had an internal short.

20 minutes later my spare Facet pump was in place & I was back in business.

The failed pump only had 600 hours on it, not much of a lifespan if you ask me.



Cheers