Santana 27 exhaust system

[hanleyclifford]

Yes, water lifts are a proven technology and I've been using one for 25 years with a VETUS water lift. But if I could, I'd go for a standpipe. None of us are in a position to tell others what to do, but I for one would never discourage someone from thinking outside the box.

[hanleyclifford]

Another solution not yet mentioned is the modification of the present standpipe. If a new discharge were fitted, higher on the outer pipe, a downhill pitch to transom could be achieved. The standpipe would not afford as much protection as a full length unit, but would solve the problem to hand at minimal cost and modification. The expected use of the boat would have to be taken into account.

[ndutton]

I'd take a new waterlift system any day over a patched up and modified questionable standpipe of unknown age. JOSO (Just One Sailor's Opinion)

[hanleyclifford]

I'd take a new waterlift system any day over a patched up and modified 44 year old questionable standpipe. JOSO (Just One Sailor's Opinion)

I think that "standpipe" is fairly new, but not properly engineered for that boat.

[ndutton]

I think that "standpipe" is fairly new, but not properly engineered for that boat.

Well then your experience with standpipes is far greater than mine. All I know is what was reported in the first post: boat is a 1971, standpipe is suspect according to the previous owner. Deferring to your analysis of its age I've modified my previous post.

Other forums have more than their share of members who acquired their expertise from only the internet but not here. Our forum is a real world, hands on place and this thread is yet another example. Obviously from considerable experience with exhaust systems in general and standpipes in particular we are now provided an approximate age of Lazlo's standpipe from the picture alone. Impressive.

Maybe one more tidbit: standpipes are an old technology giving way to waterlifts back in the 1970's. That's why they're so hard to find these days with the single exception of MMI.

[tomsailmaker]

Santana 27 exhost

Having owned a Santana 27 (and a couple of 22,s) what you need to know is the boat wasn't designed for an inboard motor. You can see that by the missing engine cover/box, they just planted it there,. Having worked for the WD Schock plant I know they just looked around and found something in stock that might fit and that's what you got. Only a few 27s had inboards so no need to redesign the boat around the motor. If it was mine I would pull the motor and go with a 10hp outboard and motor at 6knots. I did that for 125 miles from Ensenada,that gives you lots of storage space and less weight and that is what Gary Mull designed for. IMHO
Neil good to see you back!

[hanleyclifford]

Well then your experience with standpipes is far greater than mine. All I know is what was reported in the first post: boat is a 1971, standpipe is suspect according to the previous owner. Deferring to your analysis of its age I've modified my previous post.

Maybe one more tidbit: standpipes are an old technology giving way to waterlifts back in the 1970's. That's why they're so hard to find these days with the single exception of MMI.

Atomic 4 is an old technology.

[hanleyclifford]

Having owned a Santana 27 (and a couple of 22,s) what you need to know is the boat wasn't designed for an inboard motor. You can see that by the missing engine cover/box, they just planted it there,. Having worked for the WD Schock plant I know they just looked around and found something in stock that might fit and that's what you got. Only a few 27s had inboards so no need to redesign the boat around the motor. If it was mine I would pull the motor and go with a 10hp outboard and motor at 6knots. I did that for 125 miles from Ensenada,that gives you lots of storage space and less weight and that is what Gary Mull designed for. IMHO
Neil good to see you back!

Looking at the boat I suspected as much. Still, the engine is in the boat now. If it were my boat I'd make it right.

[Laszlo]

Work in progress

Hello Everyone,
First of all, thank you again for all the replies. This forum is full of helpful people! Thanks for the insight Tom regarding the Santanas. It does seem like a really tight fit for an inboard engine, but I agree with Hanley: it's already in the boat. Might as well try to get in working shape.
I thought I would give an update on this project. Having read some other threads discussing problems caused by elevated exhaust back pressure, I decided against the water-lift. Perhaps It would have been feasible, but I didn't want to introduce a new problem. I couldn't find any standpipes that would fit into my boat, and to have one custom welded at a machine shop was beyond the budget of this project. So I decided to go with my original plan. (Thanks Neil for your input regarding the Catalinas.)

I am attaching some pictures showing the original standpipe. In the bottom, you can see the welded patch that was likely leaking exhaust gas (smoke). I couldn't get the flange off by turning, so I cut the neck off, and used a hacksaw blade to cut several incisions into the pipe stub (at about 10 o'clock, noon, and 2 o'clock). Then I used a hole-punch to knock out these fragments. After that, the rest of the stub could be crushed and turned out with a vise-grip.

I am also attaching a picture of the cooling water outlet on the exhaust manifold. It is quite rusted, but I couldn't get it off the engine. For the time being, it will have to stay. The OD of that pipe nipple is about 17mm. I found some high-temperature radiator tubing at NAPA with a 19mm ID, which will do with some hose clamps.

Finally, I am also attaching some pictures of how the pipe routing will look like. I am waiting for some high-heat coating spray and exhaust wrap to arrive in the mail, but otherwise it is almost ready. I applied a generous amount of anti-seize paste at all the joints, and clamped down pretty hard on those pipe fittings to make sure it is all air-tight. The back of the piping expands to a 1 1/2" NPT nipple. The OD of that is just below 2", which is the same as the ID of my exhaust tube.

~Laszlo

[ndutton]

Nice design Laszlo but please consider a few issues:

1. Galvanized pipe. The zinc of the galvanizing will cook off in time but while it does it emits toxic fumes, a situation as dangerous as an exhaust leak inside the boat. The ABYC and USCG forbid the use of galvanized pipe in exhaust hot sections for this reason. If you have a torch available you can burn it off yourself under controlled conditions in a well ventilated area or it can be replaced ($$) with pipe not galvanized. Sorry to be the messenger here but your health and safety are at stake.
2. The 2 hole pipe strap at the top. I hope it is a temporary arrangement because the pipe gets wicked hot and the structure it is clamped to is combustible. Safety again. You were planning on adding heat wrap to the piping, right?
3. Water injection hose. It won't last 10 minutes laying against the hot pipe. We're talking in the neighborhood of 600°F in operation.

Again, nice design and it will be a good exhaust system after a few refinements.

[hanleyclifford]

You have indeed made best use of the space and limitations available. If you are able to preserve the downward pitch to transom you will get the advantage of the standpipe. Neil is right about the bracket. Try to configure some sort of "jackscrew" support from the engine itself.

[hanleyclifford]

I do think further effort to remove that fitting on the exhaust manifold is in order. Try using a product called "Kroil" or PB Blaster. I think it's a fairly safe bet that there is significant blockage inside that fitting and possibly the manifold jacket as well. Even if you have to destroy it, the hole is 1/2" NPT which is easily rethreaded.

[hanleyclifford]

Here is a sample of how threaded rod can be used to stabilize a hot section.

[Laszlo]

Exhaust system complete; still no joy

Hello Afourians,
Thanks for the comments on the exhaust system. I haven't considered the galvanized pipe issue before. Black pipe is a little harder to come by, but once a source is found it is actually much cheaper than galvanized anyway. I went ahead and replaced the plumbing with black pipe up till where the cooling water enters the system. I treated the pipes with high-heat protective coating. The wood flange (holding the pipe clamp) was replaced with steel, and I applied fiberglass insulation generously to reduce heat radiation from the piping. Some pictures are shown below.

However, water is still getting into the oil; there seems to be a crack in the water jacket. I haven't researched how much of a pain it would be to fix that problem, but I am afraid that a lot. Since the boat is not actually all that valuable anyway, I am leaning towards buying an outboard motor at this point. However, I still haven't given up on the engine completely. Is there a thread here on water jacket repair?

I bought a head gasket sealing product (with nanofibers, and other BS in it), but didn't use it yet. Every car mechanic says that such head gasket and engine block sealing/repair products are useless. Does anybody have any experience with such products at all?

I tried idling the engine without cooling water (and monitoring the temperature by touching the head), and it seems that it can be idled and occasionally throttled for quite some time without significant overheating. I am fully aware that I might do additional damage to the engine by running it too hot. My question is: does anyone have any experience with cooling the engine with an alternative solution (like for example by cooling the engine oil, or by attaching an external water-cooled heat sink)?

~Laszlo

[hanleyclifford]

If you do a pressure test on the water jacket you'll have the answer. Plug the intake side after the water pump and then the discharge end of the manifold using a schraeder valve and gauge. Bicycle pump can be used the apply pressure.