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Old 12-06-2020, 03:33 PM
Amphibiographer Amphibiographer is offline
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Oil Leaking from Fill/Breather Cap

Hi everyone!
There is oil on the engine all around the oi fill/breather cap, it seems to blow out from the breather holes, is this normal? Do I need a new cap with better filter inside?
Why would there be holes in the fill cap in the first place seems strange to me!?
Terry
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Old 12-06-2020, 03:45 PM
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What is your oil level? Other than to much oil in the pan it would be blow-by from the rings. Another contributor could be to much timing (to advanced) or even a stuck c-advance.

Perhaps a PCV set up may help too.

The holes are to "ventilate" the crankcase.

Dave Neptune
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Old 12-06-2020, 04:53 PM
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worst case could be that something else than oil is raising the level... no mayo on the dip-stick?
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Old 12-06-2020, 05:27 PM
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Mechanical or electric fuel pump?
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
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Old 12-06-2020, 07:01 PM
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Definitely check the oil level! If the oil level is OK, I'll have to REALLY start thinking. If the oil level is high, then we can attack that issue.
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Old 12-07-2020, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Schober View Post
Definitely check the oil level! If the oil level is OK, I'll have to REALLY start thinking. If the oil level is high, then we can attack that issue.
Oil level is fine.
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Old 12-07-2020, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
worst case could be that something else than oil is raising the level... no mayo on the dip-stick?
no it looks good. And oil level is fine!
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Old 12-07-2020, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
What is your oil level? Other than to much oil in the pan it would be blow-by from the rings. Another contributor could be to much timing (to advanced) or even a stuck c-advance.

Perhaps a PCV set up may help too.

The holes are to "ventilate" the crankcase.

Dave Neptune
hmmmm none of those sound good!! We've recently timed the engine but it's still coming out some .
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Old 12-07-2020, 08:08 AM
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As mentioned by others it sounds like blow-by to me. Did this start suddenly or has it slowly gotten worse? The options are to rebuild the A-4, add a PCV to help control the blow-by or just live with it. Think about how you plan to use the boat. Quick trip out of the marina? Then you may get by with just running the fan to clear the gasses when you are under power. PCV will help but has its own issues. Going cruising? May need to rebuild.
Dan
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Old 12-07-2020, 10:33 AM
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Since the oil level is fine it eliminates a lot of possibilities.

Try backing the timing off a few degrees, it should help by controlling the cylinder pressure when the fuel is burning. If the timing is to advanced the engine may feel more responsive BUT this causes the fuel to have burnt (expanded) to fast so as the piston gets to the top of the stroke the cylinder pressure is to much and forces some gasses past the rings. Backing the timing off will reduce the shock and produce more torque while reducing the ring loads. The shock I refer to is commonly called pinging but in a low compression engine like this it is seldom audible. Also premium fuel will not help as it burns to slow for this low of compression!!!!!!!

Do a "dry" compression check then a "wet" compression check. This will give some info on ring wear.

You did not state whether or not the "blow-by" started abruptly or gradually. If gradually it could be just plain ole wear and tear. If it was an abrupt change you may of broken a ring which is not real common.

Dave Neptune
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Old 12-07-2020, 05:41 PM
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OK, oil level good.
Another question - are you getting fumes in the cabin?
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Old 12-08-2020, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Schober View Post
OK, oil level good.
Another question - are you getting fumes in the cabin?
Yes, we're getting fumes which I thought were exhaust fumes! Trying to find a leak in the exhaust system.
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Old 12-08-2020, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
Since the oil level is fine it eliminates a lot of possibilities.

Try backing the timing off a few degrees, it should help by controlling the cylinder pressure when the fuel is burning. If the timing is to advanced the engine may feel more responsive BUT this causes the fuel to have burnt (expanded) to fast so as the piston gets to the top of the stroke the cylinder pressure is to much and forces some gasses past the rings. Backing the timing off will reduce the shock and produce more torque while reducing the ring loads. The shock I refer to is commonly called pinging but in a low compression engine like this it is seldom audible. Also premium fuel will not help as it burns to slow for this low of compression!!!!!!!

Do a "dry" compression check then a "wet" compression check. This will give some info on ring wear.

You did not state whether or not the "blow-by" started abruptly or gradually. If gradually it could be just plain ole wear and tear. If it was an abrupt change you may of broken a ring which is not real common.

Dave Neptune
We timed it for the highest revs as per Don Moyer's recommendations in his video so we'll try backing it off some. I think a gradual start, oil has been building on the engine for awhile and we're getting what I thought was an exhaust smell in the the cabin and engine compartment! It's been like that for months.

Not sure what wet or dry compression check means?

Thanks so much for this info Dave, much appreciated!! We'll try backing off the timing and let you know what happens.
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Old 12-08-2020, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Mechanical or electric fuel pump?
Mechanical.
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:38 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Do the dry test first then the wet test. Either remember to shut the key off or remove the ign hot lead from the coil. Leaving the coil (ign) on can fry the coil be carefull.

Dry compression check. First remove the plugs and be sure the batteries are charged fully, then set the throttle for wide open full throttle. Now do the check and record your findings. Best to do each cylinder twice.

Now it is time for the wet test. The wet test is the same procedure but you spray some WD-40 or lube oil into the spark plug hole and do the test with the oil. Again record your findings and test twice.

The wet test will let you know about the rings as the oil will seal them a bit and yield higher compression values if the rings are leaking.

If the exhaust is leaking you will need to address that and it is not as daunting as it sounds but very important to safety.

When setting the timing via "power timing" ALWAYS back it off from max a few degrees. The engine will like it and run much smoother. Or you can go through the process to find TDC and add marks to the flywheel or accessory pulley. Then you can be sure of the proper setting.

Dave Neptune
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Old 12-08-2020, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphibiographer View Post
Not sure what wet or dry compression check means?
COMPRESSION TEST PROCEDURE
Test the engine while its warm, as you'll get different readings hot and cold.
Your readings will be higher on a hot engine, but if it passes cold it will pass hot.

1. Make sure water intake is shut off so you don't fill exhaust system with water which will then enter the cylinders.
(You're not actually going to run the engine during the test so it won't need any cooling)
2. Remove spark plugs. Cover holes with a rag.
3. Remove coil wire, disable fuel pump if electric (remove fuse or disconnect wire)
4. Open throttle to wide open and leave it there.
5. Be sure choke is OPEN completely
6. Screw tester into spark plug hole #1 and crank the engine with starter for a few seconds.
You'll see the pressure on the gauge go up in steps and max out.
When it tops out, that's the reading.
7. Repeat on other cylinders.

If the readings are low or vary more than about 10% from one cylinder to the next, add a tablespoon of motor oil through the spark plug hole of the low cylinder(s).
If this increases the pressure significantly, it indicates worn rings or valve guides (the oil acts to seal the gap somewhat).
If it doesn't change it's more likely a valve that's sticking or not closing all the way.
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Amphibiographer (12-08-2020)
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
Do the dry test first then the wet test. Either remember to shut the key off or remove the ign hot lead from the coil. Leaving the coil (ign) on can fry the coil be carefull.

Dry compression check. First remove the plugs and be sure the batteries are charged fully, then set the throttle for wide open full throttle. Now do the check and record your findings. Best to do each cylinder twice.

Now it is time for the wet test. The wet test is the same procedure but you spray some WD-40 or lube oil into the spark plug hole and do the test with the oil. Again record your findings and test twice.

The wet test will let you know about the rings as the oil will seal them a bit and yield higher compression values if the rings are leaking.

If the exhaust is leaking you will need to address that and it is not as daunting as it sounds but very important to safety.

When setting the timing via "power timing" ALWAYS back it off from max a few degrees. The engine will like it and run much smoother. Or you can go through the process to find TDC and add marks to the flywheel or accessory pulley. Then you can be sure of the proper setting.

Dave Neptune
Thanks so much for the detailed instructions! I'll let you know how it goes!!
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
COMPRESSION TEST PROCEDURE
Test the engine while its warm, as you'll get different readings hot and cold.
Your readings will be higher on a hot engine, but if it passes cold it will pass hot.

1. Make sure water intake is shut off so you don't fill exhaust system with water which will then enter the cylinders.
(You're not actually going to run the engine during the test so it won't need any cooling)
2. Remove spark plugs. Cover holes with a rag.
3. Remove coil wire, disable fuel pump if electric (remove fuse or disconnect wire)
4. Open throttle to wide open and leave it there.
5. Be sure choke is OPEN completely
6. Screw tester into spark plug hole #1 and crank the engine with starter for a few seconds.
You'll see the pressure on the gauge go up in steps and max out.
When it tops out, that's the reading.
7. Repeat on other cylinders.

If the readings are low or vary more than about 10% from one cylinder to the next, add a tablespoon of motor oil through the spark plug hole of the low cylinder(s).
If this increases the pressure significantly, it indicates worn rings or valve guides (the oil acts to seal the gap somewhat).
If it doesn't change it's more likely a valve that's sticking or not closing all the way.
Wow, more detailed instructions!! Thanks so much, we'll try this and let you know how it works!!
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Old 05-09-2021, 05:04 PM
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Sorry for taking so long to get back to you! We finally did a compression check and all cylinders are great! So, compression not the issue!! Rings must be fine.

Probably just an old engine issue since oil has been coating that area of the engine for a long time and the smell is probably not exhaust but the burning oil on hot engine. We put some oil in the carb to try to make it smoke and see where it was leaking but got nothing. Then I noticed the smoke coming from the front of the engine where the oil had leaked from the filler cap, so that may be the smoking solved. As to exactly why it's leaking from the filler cap, don't know?!

Also, we backed off the revs a bit as suggested. After our tapping the block for a stud and replacing distributor stuff and timing the engine runs beautifully, starts easily, much better than it has for years. Oh yes, we also had a meltdown (with LOTS of smoke!) of an igniton wire which was being rubbed by the throttle control!! Replacing that solved the intermittent hesitation problem we'd been having for months!! Seems that the wire was being shorted out at times.

Thanks roadnsky and Dave Neptune and everyone else for your help so far!! Couldn't have done all this without it!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
COMPRESSION TEST PROCEDURE
Test the engine while its warm, as you'll get different readings hot and cold.
Your readings will be higher on a hot engine, but if it passes cold it will pass hot.

1. Make sure water intake is shut off so you don't fill exhaust system with water which will then enter the cylinders.
(You're not actually going to run the engine during the test so it won't need any cooling)
2. Remove spark plugs. Cover holes with a rag.
3. Remove coil wire, disable fuel pump if electric (remove fuse or disconnect wire)
4. Open throttle to wide open and leave it there.
5. Be sure choke is OPEN completely
6. Screw tester into spark plug hole #1 and crank the engine with starter for a few seconds.
You'll see the pressure on the gauge go up in steps and max out.
When it tops out, that's the reading.
7. Repeat on other cylinders.

If the readings are low or vary more than about 10% from one cylinder to the next, add a tablespoon of motor oil through the spark plug hole of the low cylinder(s).
If this increases the pressure significantly, it indicates worn rings or valve guides (the oil acts to seal the gap somewhat).
If it doesn't change it's more likely a valve that's sticking or not closing all the way.
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