Fast way to change oil on the A4.

[domenic]

The top plate of my gear box is easy to remove. The gearbox oil is from the engine. I pump it out from the gear box, and replace it there.

My first oil change is to clean the engine. After one hour of running, I give it a second oil change. I like to change oil every thirty hours of engine time.

I don't like the oil hole on the side of the engine. It took me two weekends to get the bolt off the first time.

[roadnsky]

I use the MMI Oil Change Kit.
My oil change takes 5-10 minutes. Nary a drop spilled.

If something is easy to do, you'll be more likely to do it.
Especially if you're as lazy as I am!

[Skywalker]

I have the old hand pump. Works great. I put a 2 liter soda bottle in the sump in front of my A4 (lots of room on a T27) and pump away.

Simple, clean, and reliable.

I'm due for a change. I also think some gunk came lose from somewhere. My pressure was jumping around a bit, then settled back down. I'm guessing some gunk got caught in the screen?

Anyway, some nice clean oil should do the trick.

Chris.

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

I'm due for a change. I also think some gunk came lose from somewhere. My pressure was jumping around a bit, then settled back down. I'm guessing some gunk got caught in the screen?

Anyway, some nice clean oil should do the trick.

Chris.

Usually it's right around the oil pressure sender. Usually you can remove it easily, place a rag over the hole and have someone click the starter...the ball will pop out with a splash of oil. Clean it all up and replace. There are times you may have to replace the components and MMI sells it. Usually not a major at all.

[Skywalker]

Awesome, thanks, as always.

It's a crappy day on Long Island. Good day for maintenance. Now, if I can get my son out of bed...

Chris

[yeahjohn]

West marine oil extractor... pump 20 times sit back and watch the oil collect. I did three oil changes in one hour after my exciting water issue.

[Skywalker]

Mo,

Changed the oil yesterday, solo, son sleeping, so didn't remove the sensor.

Had about 20 hours since last change. Pretty grimy. I decided to add some MMO. I used a 30 weight for high mileage by penzoil that claims to remove 40% of sludge with the first change. I figure this will be my last change until haul out in about 6 weeks. I don't trust these kind of claims, up I guess it can hurt.

The pressure held steady right around 40. I'm going for a sail tomorrow, so I'll motor out for a change and see if it jumps around.

Chris

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

Mo,

Changed the oil yesterday, solo, son sleeping, so didn't remove the sensor.

Had about 20 hours since last change. Pretty grimy. I decided to add some MMO. I used a 30 weight for high mileage by penzoil that claims to remove 40% of sludge with the first change. I figure this will be my last change until haul out in about 6 weeks. I don't trust these kind of claims, up I guess it can hurt.

The pressure held steady right around 40. I'm going for a sail tomorrow, so I'll motor out for a change and see if it jumps around.

Chris

Chris,
Once you do multiple changes at the 20-25 hrs mark you will notice the oil won't be as dirty. When I check the oil on my dipstick now, after doing this for about 5 yrs, I have to look close to see where the oil is because it is so clean. It will come. For the cost of oil and less than an hour's work it's pretty good insurance. Again, I like my 15W40 but will never say too much about what oil anyone puts in an engine...frequent oil changes make all the difference in the world on engine life.

Just an example for ya: My dodge cummins recommends oil change every 10,000 miles and holds 12 quarts....that is on the safe side and the engine manufacture knows that. I change mine every 5000 K....the truck has almost 280,000 miles on it and is not even a bit tired. I could go out and jump on her now and she would smoke 'em. I've never added oil between changes and I'd go anywhere in it. The engine was no better than other cummins engines of the same type, but the maintenance schedule keeps wear down.

[sastanley]

Mo..+1 on your comments. Considering the punishment we put on engine oil, I agree that frequent changes are the key to long engine life.

[Skywalker]

I'm sold.

Doesn't sound like your dodge is broken in yet!

I bought an old Chevy suburban for knock around projects, towing my wife's trailer, etc. I don't know who had it, but there was 289,000 when I bought it. It now has 305,000, burns a little oil, bit runs great. It sits for long periods, starts ight up when called to duty. I'm pretty good about oil changes now.

My access is so good on my A4, the manual pump works well. The only downside is I can't get the sump empty. I get 3+ quarts out. Obviously, frequent changes will help this. This offseason, I'll get a hose down in there and clean it out a few times.

I want this baby to run for a while, she's only a 1966 after all!


Chris

[ILikeRust]

Originally Posted by yeahjohn

West marine oil extractor... pump 20 times sit back and watch the oil collect. I did three oil changes in one hour after my exciting water issue.

Yup. Me too.

[robshepherd]

What do you guys think about "flushing" with kerosene or diesel? I've heard a couple of times "down on the docks" that I might remove the oil, add diesel, run it at idle for 10 minutes or so, pump it all out, and then refill with fresh oil. Presumably this gets the sediment out that is otherwise difficult to get with a normal pump out.

Is there anything to this, or is it a bad idea?

Thank you! -Rob

[ILikeRust]

10 minutes? Oh hell no. 20 seconds? Maybe.

[robshepherd]

Originally Posted by ILikeRust

10 minutes? Oh hell no. 20 seconds? Maybe.

Wow. Ok. See, this is why I come to you all. I'm taking it that your "maybe" caveat means you wouldn't do this. -R

[CalebD]

It is an interesting idea. I'm really no expert on oils
We use MMO oil in our engine oil and a bit in the gas but it is nearly a 5W weight oil, very thin.
I'm not sure how diesel would compare with the 30-40W oil most use. From the standpoint that diesel is pretty stinky I don't think I would use it to try and "flush" out the oil pan.
A few repeated oil changes seems to get most of the bottom crud out of the oil gallery.

[Mo]

Hi Guys,
There are cases where emulsified oil may have to be cut with lighter petroleum products to remove it from a base pan. Generally, if there is sludge in the bottom of a pan it can be cut with any light petroleum product.

The part of this I wouldn't do is run the engine. That's just me and I'm sure some guys here with more experience would and can justify how it might be advisable to do so...I have no problem with that either.

Now, the question is how would I scrub the base pan without removing the engine or running the engine...might be able to get in through the reversing gear cover and do something with it...but it would be difficult without removing half of it and even then you wouldn't really know how good a job was done.

It has been a long long time since I've seen sludge in a base pan. Frequency of changes and better oils have pretty much eliminated sludge from what I used to see as a kid playing with engines. There was a time when the oil filler caps were just covered in it...it was a pretty good indicator of what the rest of it would look like ie top pans, base pan etc.

So, if in doubt, I'd consider changing the oil more frequently.

[Skywalker]

When I was a kid messing around with cars, I hung out at a shop that restored old cars, Model T, Model A, old jaguars, T Birds, etc. it was fun. Learned some body work and stuff.

I bought an old triumph. The old mechanic told me to drain the oil, put in kerosene, and let it idle for a couple of minutes.

I did as he recommended. No troubles. Cleaned out nicely.

Fwiw

Chris

[robshepherd]

Interesting thread. I hope others will chime in.

To be honest, I don't know that I have sludge in the pan. I do know that she's about 40 years old though, so it's possible. After I change the oil it looks a little dirty on the stick the first time it's run. That could also mean that I'm just not getting all of the old oil out of the pan.

Perhaps a flush with diesel and oil 50/50 and run it for a minute. Just thinking "out loud". I have not tried multiple oil changes as others have mentioned in this thread. That's probably the safe place to start.

I'll follow along here and see what others have to share. -Rob

[edwardc]

Emulsified sludge in the pan is not so much a concern as sludge caught in the passages, particularly those at the bearings.

Ken Broman, the owner of Oak Harbor Marina and an A4 affectionado, told me that after flushing the emulsified oil out of a flooded engine by multiple oil changes, he then ran it and disassembled it and found that there was still tan sludge in the bearing feeds, despite having been run.

I would imagine that a kerosene flush and a short run might help clean this out. It cerainly will thin the "milkshake" and make it easier to pump out.

[Mo]

Originally Posted by robshepherd

Interesting thread. I hope others will chime in.

To be honest, I don't know that I have sludge in the pan. I do know that she's about 40 years old though, so it's possible. After I change the oil it looks a little dirty on the stick the first time it's run. That could also mean that I'm just not getting all of the old oil out of the pan.

Perhaps a flush with diesel and oil 50/50 and run it for a minute. Just thinking "out loud". I have not tried multiple oil changes as others have mentioned in this thread. That's probably the safe place to start.

I'll follow along here and see what others have to share. -Rob

Rob,
My personal opinion would be to do an oil change every 20-25 hours use a detergent oil...that's what it is for....I'd like to recommend the 15w40 diesel oil because it runs quieter has detergent other sludge reducing properties. It also has a quality that prevents it burning off as quick...so the chance of running low is diminished on a long run. Enhanced shear properties are also in diesel oils. Pretty much all of them have sludge removing capabilities since the 80's.

Here's a link to one of the best informative sites on the subject without it being "scewed" by someone trying to sell you one or the other. It's from a british site but the info is good and to the point.
http://www.driverstechnology.co.uk/oils.htm

Who'd have thunk it...but here's another one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

"All the current gasoline categories (including the obsolete SH), have placed limitations on the phosphorus content for certain SAE viscosity grades (the xW-20, xW-30) due to the chemical poisoning that phosphorus has on catalytic converters. Phosphorus is a key anti-wear component in motor oil and is usually found in motor oil in the form of zinc dithiophosphate. Each new API category has placed successively lower phosphorus and zinc limits, and thus has created a controversial issue of obsolescent oils needed for older engines, especially engines with sliding (flat/cleave) tappets. API, and ILSAC, which represents most of the worlds major automobile/engine manufactures, states API SM/ILSAC GF-4 is fully backwards compatible, and it is noted that one of the engine tests required for API SM, the Sequence IVA, is a sliding tappet design to test specifically for cam wear protection. Not everyone is in agreement with backwards compatibility, and in addition, there are special situations, such as "performance" engines or fully race built engines, where the engine protection requirements are above and beyond API/ILSAC requirements. Because of this, there are specialty oils out in the market place with higher than API allowed phosphorus levels. Most engines built before 1985 have the flat/cleave bearing style systems of construction, which is sensitive to reducing zinc and phosphorus. Example; in API SG rated oils, this was at the 1200-1300 ppm level for zinc and phosphorus, where the current SM is under 600 ppm. This reduction in anti-wear chemicals in oil has caused premature failures of camshafts and other high pressure bearings in many older automobiles and has been blamed for pre-mature failure of the oil pump drive/cam position sensor gear that is meshed with camshaft gear in some modern engines.
There are six diesel engine service designations which are current: CJ-4, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-2, and CF. Some manufacturers continue to use obsolete designations such as CC for small or stationary diesel engines. In addition, API created a separated CI-4 PLUS designation in conjunction with CJ-4 and CI-4 for oils that meet certain extra requirements, and this marking is located in the lower portion of the API Service Symbol "Donut".
It is possible for an oil to conform to both the gasoline and diesel standards. In fact, it is the norm for all diesel rated engine oils to carry the "corresponding" gasoline specification. For example, API CJ-4 will almost always list either SL or SM, API CI-4 with SL, API CH-4 with SJ, and so on."

[robshepherd]

Originally Posted by Mo

Rob,
My personal opinion would be to do an oil change every 20-25 hours use a detergent oil...that's what it is for....I'd like to recommend the 15w40 diesel oil because it runs quieter has detergent other sludge reducing properties.

Thanks Mo!

I'll check out the links you shared. -Rob

[edwardc]

Originally Posted by Mo

....I'd like to recommend the 15w40 diesel oil because it runs quieter has detergent other sludge reducing properties. ...

Not to mention that its vastly easier to locate than single-weight 30W oil, especially in the little towns you're likely to dock at while "on the road".

[seapadrik]

Thought I would chime in on this one too. I had a little hand pump for the longest time and hated using it. I researched for a 12 volt unit that does the job. Although the one I have came with everything, you could also build your own system and just buy the pump. This thing works amazingly well. The pump is bi-drectional so after the oil change I empty it into the now-empty oil bottles. Its very quiet, and the pump is plenty strong.