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  #1   IP: 75.192.205.94
Old 08-09-2013, 08:46 AM
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New Raw Water Flow Sensor From MMI

MMI is pleased to announce a new product offering, a raw water flow sensor fully compatible with our Cole-Hersee oil pressure and water temperature alarm system.

Click here for more info!



The trip point is set to detect when raw water flow is reduced to a rate just below normal starter RPM (essentially a little more than a trickle). Although overheating is already monitored by the Cole-Hersee alarm, overheating can be caused by a variety of factors. This sensor provides specific monitoring of intake blockage, system obstruction, and offers impeller protection (spinning in a no-flow environment).

Bill

Last edited by Administrator; 08-09-2013 at 08:50 AM.
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  #2   IP: 67.235.27.130
Old 08-09-2013, 09:25 AM
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Great addition!
I can think of at least TWO threads current right now that this would have avoided their overheat episodes.
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  #3   IP: 198.11.8.218
Old 08-09-2013, 10:19 AM
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Nice

One of which was mine.

Add to Fall alarm/FWC project....
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  #4   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 08-09-2013, 08:24 PM
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Jeff, I count three very recent threads where this flow sensor would have been of great benefit: yours, Taylor's and Jack Connick's. All three involved a zero raw water flow overheat that would have been detected instantly. Yeah, I'm likin' it.
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Last edited by ndutton; 08-09-2013 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:44 PM
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Thumbs up

SSSS SMOKIN...I'm impressed. That will counter many incidents of overheating and certainly lend to longer engine life....absolutely. My ear is tuned into sound of my exhaust water "blurping" in the water...it's automatic for me but this is a step up by all means. Bravo.
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  #6   IP: 107.0.6.131
Old 08-09-2013, 09:51 PM
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Question Hmmm

Good to 200 degrees. Any reason why it couldn't be used in the antifreeze loop?
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  #7   IP: 107.217.19.47
Old 08-09-2013, 11:46 PM
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"Flow sensor tests"

I was fortunate enough to be asked to do some testing on this sensor prior to it's addition to the Moyer line of products. Since it's installation about a month ago, I have logged about a dozen hours on three seperate trips and have nothing but praise for it's performance. My A4 is fresh water cooled with a "thin shoe" Oberdorfer pump with a 2 year old impeller on the raw water side. The sensor is installed just in front of my heat exchanger, mainly because it was a convienient location. My normal "innitial" start-up procedure on each trip is to start my A4 at the engine via parallel ignition and start switches and then to turn on the water intake after the engine has stabilized which is normally about 5 to 10 seconds. This method accomplishes two things, first it verifies that the flow sensor is working and secondly it prevents excessive water buildup in the water-lift. Despite a claim of a 7% reduction in flow rate, I have found virtually "no" change in my running temps. Over the years I have forgotten to turn on the water intake several times and this "forgetter's alarm" would have prevented those events.
"Note to Hanley" I have been using a "medium output" Bosch electric circulation on the coolant side of my system and I will most likely be adding another sensor to that side also....Great idea, thank's
Tom
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  #8   IP: 174.94.17.118
Old 08-15-2013, 04:38 AM
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Darn...I already added a raw water flow sensor to my vessel prior to this product coming out!

Mine is plumbed in to the inlet water flow from the raw water strainer to the water pump.

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Old 08-15-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67c&ccorv View Post
Darn...I already added a raw water flow sensor to my vessel prior to this product coming out!
That just means you were on the cutting edge already realizing the benefit of such a sensor. Does yours work with the standard engine alarm system or is it stand-alone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
Good to 200 degrees. Any reason why it couldn't be used in the antifreeze loop?
On principle I'd say it could be used there if you're comfortable operating close to it's upper temp limit. Operating at the target FWC temp of 180° you're within 10% of the maximum. Not much margin of safety IMO.
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Last edited by ndutton; 08-15-2013 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:22 PM
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Smile

Neil, what does your's run at. I think you removed the T-stat in your FWC'd...is that correct?
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  #11   IP: 98.148.138.9
Old 08-15-2013, 05:37 PM
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I just had mine out for a good run yesterday. My cooling system is FWC, electric coolant pump, lengthy water heater loop, no T-stat, bypass fully closed.
Previous running temps were 180° - 195°. With the new flow sensor installed in the RW discharge hose (7% restriction) and a new M7 cam shoe in the raw water pump my running temps are now 140°@ 1500 RPM and 155°@ 2000 RPM.

Looks like it might be time to start tweaking the bypass valve.
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  #12   IP: 174.94.17.118
Old 08-16-2013, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
That just means you were on the cutting edge already realizing the benefit of such a sensor. Does yours work with the standard engine alarm system or is it stand-alone?
Stand alone system...has a warning beeper and flashing light to alert you.

http://www.aqualarm.net/comerus/stor...p?idProduct=35


Last edited by 67c&ccorv; 08-16-2013 at 03:19 AM.
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  #13   IP: 75.243.177.19
Old 09-01-2013, 08:31 AM
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Bumped.

Bill
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  #14   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 09-01-2013, 09:55 AM
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Thatch and I were talking about this last week. As Hanley mentioned earlier Tom thinks with electric FWC it would also be a good idea to monitor the flow on the FW side of the cooling system. I've already experienced an electric FW pump failure (the first cheap, off brand pump I tried - lesson learned) so this is becoming particularly interesting to me.
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Last edited by ndutton; 09-01-2013 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:12 PM
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overheating alarm and electric water pump questions

This thread makes me wonder:
1. If the raw water flow sensor is wired to the same alarm as the temperature sensor, how does it tell you that you have a problem in the RW flow? Shouldn't it have its own, preferably different sounding, alarm? But anyway it would be good to know there is a RW flow problem before your engine actually overheats. I am FW cooled, with no t-stat, and a thermostatic mixing valve. I installed a temp alarm on the front of the head this year, next to the gauge sensor, and it told me my RW (Jabsco) impeller had broken. I heard the alarm go off, shut down, then later after it cooled I noticed no water coming out the exhaust. A flow sensor would have told me sooner, before the engine got hot. Putting one in the FW line would be good too, but it would probably need replacing every time the temperature alarm went off, unless it had its own alarm and you shut down before the engine go hot enough to trigger the temperature alarm
2. What are the advantages to having an electric FW pump? Is it to flush the engine without running it? I have the new MMI 502 flange pump, and like it fine. I think I would rather replace an impeller than an electric pump.
3. Re #11; I don't see how restricting the flow by 7% in the RW discharge can make the engine run cooler, i would have thought the opposite. Does a new cam shoe really make a 40 degree difference? How soon do they wear out?
Thanks guys for your collective wisdom.
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Old 09-01-2013, 06:46 PM
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1. You are correct on all counts. Enhancing the existing alarm system with a flow sensor (or two for the FWC guys) gives you more triggers for an alarm event. When the alarm sounds you must shut the engine down regardless of the cause and start the search. This is the same as the basic alarm system not differentiating between over temp and dangerously low oil pressure.

2. The electric FWC system gives us another way to achieve the same goal. It's particularly useful for us Catalina 30 guys and others who have zero room on the front of the flywheel and zero clearance higher than the #1 spark plug. We can mount the pump remotely.

3. I added the flow sensor and replaced the cam shoe at the same time. Going against good engineering and troubleshooting practice (I had no trouble though) I changed two things simultaneously. It was a given the sensor would add a slight restriction and I was thinking of the M7 shoe even before adding the sensor so what better time? Without measurement to prove it I'm confident the flow benefit of the M7 cam shoe trumped the minor restriction of the sensor resulting in a net increase in raw water flow and a corresponding net reduction in engine operating temperature.
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Last edited by ndutton; 09-01-2013 at 08:40 PM. Reason: a little respect for cat lovers
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  #17   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 09-20-2013, 07:34 AM
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I received a PM from a member saying he'd found the source for MMI's flow sensor. He found it on ebay for $6 but he wasn't going to disclose this information on the forum. I'm posting it publicly in case anyone else is thinking the same thing.

Problem #1
Does anyone really think MMI would take an off the shelf $6 item and resell it for over $40? Really?

Problem #2 or go ahead, make my day
Without disclosing the details except for a promise that it won't work, go ahead and buy a $6 ebay sensor and hook it up to your existing engine alarm system. Your only penance will be to honestly report back with the result.
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  #18   IP: 198.11.8.218
Old 09-20-2013, 08:52 AM
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#1 - from the other items on the website, the answer is not likely. Markup seems to be a modest handling and overhead. They have to buy it, stock it, count it, and ship it for me to get it in 2 business days. It costs money to hold inventory. MMO, pump impellers, etc. Gaskets are market or better (better being very reasonable and/or difficult to unobtainable elsewhere.)

#2 - From another perspective - I have called MMI to order parts, only to have Ken talk me out of them until I '...tried something first...' Sometimes it worked, sometimes not, BUT THE INTEGRITY of the operation is OUTSTANDING. That resource, this forum, will keep me within the MMI family of parts wherever possible.
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  #19   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 09-20-2013, 09:18 AM
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Because of the simple fact of distance and shipping time, I've sourced many A-4 parts locally and found MMI pricing to be at least comparable and often times better.

My confidence is when buying from Moyer I know the product has been researched, scrutinized and successfully tested in advance. There's value in that. Besides, this forum they host is my drug of choice.
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:28 AM
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One thing that might be an issue is the flow switch is a catch point for debris. Not that debris won't cause issues someplace else, but I would suggest a strainer go along with this.

Another thought: Long ago airplanes got so many warnings and alarms that they will drive you nuts. A great invention is the "master caution light/alarn". You can wire up a system where all the various sensors set off their own warning light and trigger the one master light/buzzer that gets your attention.
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Old 09-20-2013, 11:46 AM
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Anybody who puts a piece of mystery Chinese equipment below their waterline deserves whatever they get. Even if the Moyer piece only costs him $5 it's worth a lot more than $40 to me to have found a component from the hundreds floating around on eBay that doesn't have one key piece made from mild steel or cheap plastic that's going to fall apart after three weeks in salt water.
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