Electronic Igition Test

[splashlog]

Had spark off the ignition coil with really old points/condenser but no spark at plugs.
Removed points and condenser (prestolite/autolite), replaced with EI pertronix, nothing.
Had to remove distro to do the change over, marked rotor position, replaced rotor and cap with new.
Checked coil voltage OK, coil ohms Ok.
No spark anywhere now
What did I miss?
Did I mess up timing? Is there a way to check if EI is OK?
Bueller?

[CajunSpike]

Not to long ago, I installed EI into my late model A4. Pulled points/plate and installed EI plate. Installed ring around the shaft..put it back together. Cranked, got nothing.
Pulled cap off again and figured out I hadn't put the ring low enough on the shaft. Due to my error, the rotor was not being fully seated. The shaft had stripped the rotor positioning slot and the rotor was not turning.

Tapped the sensor ring lower on the shaft, fully seated the rotor(later replaced), reassembled cap.
Checked spark, and got it. Engine started shortly after.

[ndutton]

Rotor-distributor cap problem.

[roadnsky]

One other thought; and I'm not trying to offend by pointing out basics.

Since the new EI has TWO wires...
Are they connected correctly?

[splashlog]

Trust me, I grieved over making sure I had the wiring all sorted out. If people could just stick to standard wire codes the world would be a much better place...

Anyway, still no fun/spark. I rechecked the installation, as I was concerned that the physical install may not have been correct, but it is. I looked at the rotor and cap and no damage, there is .25" from the top of the cam shaft to the top of the encoder ring as specified.

I am going on the notion that even if the timing is off, I would at least still get a spark off the HT coil cable IF the EI, Coil and Power are good while starting. Could it be a bad ground? I cleaned up the Distro when I removed it and sanded near where the old point connection was, should I try taking the ground to somewhere else?

I am wondering if it's possible that even with 12+V at the coil that when the iginition is on that for whatever reason the circiut is not getting enough current? Would running a jumper direct from the battery (+) to the coil be a good idea to test?

I do have a brand new coil, but it's 1.5 ohm and I have a ballast resistor to go with it, but I am trying to keep the troubleshooting as simple as possible.

Thoughts?

[JOHN COOKSON]

Has the cooling water inlet valve been closed while you have been no start cranking?

TRUE GRIT

[roadnsky]

Take a look at the attached procedure.
Might be worth a try.

[splashlog]

@John. How would the water intake O/C affect ignition? It was closed.

[jcwright]

Hello Splashlog.

The suggestion about closing the water intake is that, with certain types of exhaust systems, excessive cranking without starting can lead to water back-siphoning into the engine.

You can find a detailed discussion of this in the thread linked below; see especially the diagram by Neil at entry #3 (I believe):

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10787

Best regards,

jack

[splashlog]

I don't think that is a factor in this case. I never crank more than 5 seconds at a time and I let things cool between cycles ( I am predicting the next failure will be the starter and or alternator, which I plan to remove and clean/rebuild over the layup this winter). I did a check for water in the oil and it's all good.

Saturday is my next chance to get a spark. I will run a jumper direct from the battery to the coil as well, try to verify the EI is good.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Just To Be Sure

Take a voltage reading at coil + while cranking.

TRUE GRIT

[ndutton]

Multiple issues

In post #1 you reported good spark out of the coil with points but nothing out of the spark plug leads. The rotor is supposed to receive the coil spark on its center tab from the distributor cap center post and deliver it to one of four contacts at the distributor cap perimeter. Either the rotor center tab was not making contact with the center post or all four perimeter contacts were not making contact with the rotor shoe. I suspect the former, solved by making certain the distributor cap is properly seated on the distributor body and if necessary, slightly bending the rotor tab up to be certain it makes contact.

Also in post #1 you report no spark out of the coil after the switch to electronic ignition. The possibilities are no input voltage to the coil '+' post or the magnetic ring is not in proper proximity to the EI module - - or both. At this point it doesn't much matter because even if you had spark out of the coil it doesn't make it to the plugs.

If it were me, I'd revert back to the old points to regain coil spark and resolve the rotor-distributor cap interface issue. Once that is done and successful, proceed to electronic ignition.

I never crank more than 5 seconds at a time and I let things cool between cycles

Water volume in the muffler is cumulative and letting it cool does not remove the water within. Without exhaust pressure of a running engine the muffler will continue to fill even at 5 second intervals. 12 cycles of 5 second no-start efforts equals a 60 second no-start period in terms of water volume.

[splashlog]

I agree reverting to points is a sensible next move, my concern however is that it will force me to remove the distro again, which means there is a good chance now that I will have screwed up the timing. Is this a lgititimate concern?

[ndutton]

If the timing is already suspected to be off, removing the distributor again won't make any difference. When it is replaced a start from scratch timing exercise will have to be done. Read up on the forum for a lot of detailed information on how to do it properly including a very cool balloon tool for finding Top Dead Center.

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=114206&postcount=1

[splashlog]

simple coil test

TIL that the original coil is good.
Coil test; get 12v+ to coil from good power source (I used an old utility power supply, but a decently charged 12v battery would be just as good). Make a wire that fits into the output (CT/HT), I did this to bypass the usual distro wire. Make - (on coil) to GND but make it temporary, clip, bare end wire, etc. With power on, you will see a small spark as you contact the (-) to the coil. This is good. Now take your (CT/HT) wire and place a bare end close to the (-) terminal of the coil. Now interupt the (-) wire at the coil and look for fire. Just use one hand to break the (-) on and off the terminal (you are now a human Distro) and use the other hand to hold the CT/HT close to the (-) (GND) terminal. If power is good and coil is good you will see the spark and hopefully as well, the light...

Doing it this way bypasses all existing boat wiring, I got a nice blue light show that jumped a good 3/4". Coil is not the problem..

So, in my case, I will have to now look at the wiring from the battery to the ignition switch and back to the coil. I was not getting any spark at all even though my meter was indicating proper voltage.

I hope this makes sense.