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Old 11-09-2020, 06:06 PM
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HEAD REPLACEMENT

I rcvd a used head a couple of days ago thanks to the generosity of Jack Wright

Removed head from spare engine today took couple of hours, 1 hr prep with pbblaster and liight tapping of head bolts. Half came out stud and nut together
(all had good threads) A couple of nuts needed vice grips as they had rounded heads

Gentle use of screwdrivers wedges and blocks of wood persuaded the head\off
in 2o minutes,

I noticed that all of the oval holes in the block nearest the manifold were
blocked completely, I tried to clean them out briefly. The companion
oval holes in the old head were not blocked. I assume they are for cooling
the head??
Suggestions on clearing them appreciated.

The cylinder walls and tops of pstons looked great as do the valves.

I have ordered head gasket etc and studs nuts from MMI
Thanks

Art
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Old 11-09-2020, 08:46 PM
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Did about 4 heads this past summer on both my old engine and a few friends. Those blocked holes are generally superficial blockages, meaning they don't extend far. What I did was use a shop vacc (running) and positioned right over each hole as I disturbed the grud with a screw driver. You will note it will suck right out of there and you will also see it is only about one quarter to a half inch deep. Of course also check the head (which you did) Have a good look for cracks in the block there, like weak or thinned out areas. I've found that if it's brownish it's usually gunk building up because (of what I think) is heat. I've noticed it on cyl 1 and 2 on engines that slant rearward with the No 1 cyl forward and high. Not real sure of the correlation. Have seen black as well which I thought was a build up of carbon from an exhaust port crack leaking into the water jacket area or perhaps around manifold studs etc.

What you were looking at is the reason I do muriatic acid flushes of my engine every 2 to 3 years. When I took the head of mine, nothing of the sort was there but the other 3 sure did. So clean them out the best you can, see if you can blow compressed air through after, then reinstall the head. Once you run up the engine, check or leaks on your hoses etc. Once convinced there are no leaks I'd do a muriatic acid flush and continue to do one every couple to 3 years. I'll post Mr. Don Moyer's link beneath.

Hope that helps and perhaps others have an even better idea of how to deal with it.

https://www.moyermarineforum.com/for...20the%20engine).
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Last edited by Mo; 11-09-2020 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 11-09-2020, 09:52 PM
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Yes, those small coolant passages by the valves need to be cleaned out. They go down a short way, then fore/aft, then down again. A small hammer and chisel work well, also a Dremel tool with a diamond burr. Get out what you can. Open is better than closed!
Once you get those passages flowing, then an acid flush will do some good. When they're blocked off an acid flush does nothing.
Once they're opened up and clean, think about glycol cooling. If you want to keep your A4, it's the way to go.
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Old 11-10-2020, 07:14 AM
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Thanks Al & MO

This engine is a spare which I fill with afreeze after running did not know
about blockage till now. will try to pick and vac out. Once back together
I will do a acid flush.

Other questions Re studs and nuts

Since the threads on the studs that came out look fine I assume that
I can Torque the ones that stayed in? Is there a separate spec for
torque of the studs alone (using 2 nuts?) or use stud remover to torque??

For the ones that came out all with great threads like new if
reused I must first remove the - old good but frozen nuts maybe soak in mmo?
then clamp stud other end with 2 nuts in vice and remove or heat nuts
with torch?
I have some new studs on boat which I can retrieve and ordered a couple from MMI but at $$ per stud would like to reuse some studs

I assume it is a no no to simply reinstall studs with frozen nuts on them
both for further removal in future and to have ability to torque stud and
nut installed .

Are the nuts simply grade 8 which I can get locally?

Thanks Guys

Last edited by ArtJ; 11-10-2020 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 11-10-2020, 10:55 AM
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You've got to get the nuts off the studs and clean up the threads. You don't want the stud turning when you try to torque the nuts.
As to how hard to seat the studs, I don't know of a published number. When you torque the nuts to 35 ftlb, some of that goes into friction between the nut and the head. The rest goes into the stud. Hence the seating torque for the stud can be less than 35 ftlb. Giving a number would be a guess. But if the stud turns while you're torquing the nut, you didn't get it tight enough.
The nuts do not need to be Gr 8. Some folks have used stainless washers and stainless acorn nuts - makes things 'pretty'.
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Old 11-11-2020, 08:30 AM
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I have successfully remove the nuts from all studs and cleaned up the
threads

NUTS could not locate a local source for the large head nuts the smaller
ones are available I ordered a new set fro MM of the large nuts
Why do the small nuts exist? only found one location using them??

STUD PLACEMENT

I plan to clean the holes of removed studs wiht a 3/8 coarse tap
as recommended in MMI manual apply AV Permatex to threads and
install till bottoms out using snapon stud tool
This is a spare engine which I may or may not need to use

Still installed studs I would like to look at exposed threads i(f any)
and check tightness with snapon tool
I dont wish to remove them unless someone has a strong reason
why I must.

OVAL HOLES

plan to clean out withj pick and coat hanger bent.
Do they travel toards each other ?
How much must be cleaned out to allow muratic flush to work?

MANIFOLD
I don't want r remove unless I must in order to clean flow
What is the coolant flow from block to manifold to head

When I got this engine I nwas told it had been rebuild as mentioned
the studs, valve heads cylinder walls and heads look great\
the head was very crusty

Best Regards and thanks Art

Last edited by ArtJ; 11-11-2020 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 11-11-2020, 09:18 AM
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I used the Permatex AV on the studs when I rebuilt my engine, six of them leaked badly. I had to remove the head and studs, clean off all the Permatex, and re installed the studs with Permatex red threadlocker. No leaks after that.
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Old 11-11-2020, 10:37 AM
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There is no coolant flow between the block and the manifold. Coolant flows from the block up into the head then out through the thermostat housing. From there it flows through the manifold then to the exhaust.
You can pressure test/flush the block and head with the manifold removed.
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Old 11-11-2020, 11:02 AM
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What are you other guys using these days to seal studs?
Moyer likes AV Permatex because doesnt harden flexible. I saw elsewhere recently where MO used something else?? as well.
I am about to install studs need to decide maybe depends on condiiton of studs? Just checked MMI overhaul manual He recommends AV Permatex
unless studs are loose then He recommends Locktite

Last edited by ArtJ; 11-11-2020 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 11-12-2020, 08:34 AM
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Threaded plugs for 1 1/4 holes in block

The head I am installng has missing freeze plugs.
The holes are apparently 1 1/4 inch diam.
After viewing installation video on their installation
would prefer to install threaded plugs.
Correction
Just viewed holes again - there are no threads and the plugs are 2 different sizes
So there is no other choice
Just need to find correct size plugs in catalog
Thanks

Art

Last edited by ArtJ; 11-12-2020 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 11-12-2020, 01:14 PM
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Thermostat housing stud length 3 1/4 too short

The left hand thermostat stud (end closest to lifting eye) is
3 1/4 inches long .
While installing this stud found it would not really tighten until
in so far that only a couple of threads show above the housing
If I really torqued it in I could probably make it flush on housing.

Why does this one go in so far? f I get a 3/1/2 stud and use it
will it do damage to the block?
The alternative is to not iinstall the stud so deep
What is the best thing to do?

Thanks Appreciated Art
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Old 11-12-2020, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtJ View Post
The left hand thermostat stud (end closest to lifting eye) is
3 1/4 inches long .
While installing this stud found it would not really tighten until
in so far that only a couple of threads show above the housing
If I really torqued it in I could probably make it flush on housing.

Why does this one go in so far? f I get a 3/1/2 stud and use it
will it do damage to the block?
The alternative is to not iinstall the stud so deep
What is the best thing to do?

Thanks Appreciated Art
I looked at the local hw store studs as well as on line dont seem to fnd anything longer than 3 inches. I noted that the nut on this stud had to be
cut off . PO must have been using that may.
Looks as though I may have to resort to not fully seating the stud and let the nut tghtening torque take care of thngs?
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Old 11-12-2020, 03:15 PM
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Hello Art.

Here is a link to the 3.31" stud I believe you are trying to replace. I think Moyer sells them in pairs.

https://moyermarine.com/product/stud...lk_01_110-2-2/

Jack.
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Old 11-12-2020, 03:29 PM
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Hi Jack

The stud I have is one of those 3.31.I believe 3,25 as only a rough estimate
one possible problem is that the head is only finger tight now and will compress down a little when torqued exposing a few more threads for the nut

I suspect it is common for a stud to come out with the nut on
thermstat housing.
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Old 11-12-2020, 04:51 PM
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Exclamation

Guys


Just noticed that the manifold studs are 3.6 inches just the right length
for the thermostat !!!!!


https://moyermarine.com/product/stud..._01_110-2-2-2/
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Old 11-16-2020, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtJ View Post
The head I am installng has missing freeze plugs.
The holes are apparently 1 1/4 inch diam.
After viewing installation video on their installation
would prefer to install threaded plugs.
Correction
Just viewed holes again - there are no threads and the plugs are 2 different sizes
So there is no other choice
Just need to find correct size plugs in catalog
Thanks

Art

Below INFO and Link provided courtesy of Jack Wright :

There are different styles of plugs. The only ones I've ever used are the convex brass plugs from Moyer. They are installed convex side out. I've copied a link to a helpful webpage on how to install this type of plug. Notice they use a hammer to set the plug in place. Moyer folks often recommend using JB Weld around the rim of the plug and hole, which is what I did.

Here's the link: http://www.spriteparts.com.au/tech/welch.html
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Old 11-17-2020, 04:03 PM
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2 head studs wont hold any torque

I finally got the longer studs for the thermostat today. I began the process
of torqueing the head. Starting from the center nut and working around clockwise.

I thought I had the torque wrench set for 25 ft lbs , but discovered that
it was actually set for 35 ft lbs. Howver all of the nuts torqued successfully
except the one holding the outer nut for the alternator bracket.
This was mushy and never got to anywhere near 35 . The same story
with the one next to it going clockwise gong towards the coil. I don't
think the 35 setting was the ssue because these 2 never got anywhere
near that tightness.

I cleaned and removed all the studs that came out with the nuts.
Those that did not I checked with a breaker bar using full strength.

to make sure the fine nut threads are not stripped though I doubt it.
Just checked 2 the nuts both are fun but these 2 studs are mush almost finger loose now.
I did run a die on all threads as recommended.

Last edited by ArtJ; 11-17-2020 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 11-17-2020, 05:24 PM
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Suggestions on stud thread repair option would be welcomed.] and appreciated

Loctite?


Helicoil (never done before)?

Over sized stud rethreaded?

Thanks Art
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Old 11-17-2020, 06:32 PM
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Stud repair kit

I am Installing a head on my spare engine

Unfortunately 2 studs would not torque and need to be replaced one is located near the

coil which I assume s standard length.

The other is the outermost stud for the alternator bracket

The kit only includes one stud. I will need 2 oversized studs and the Alternator one must be a longer in addition to a larger diameter

How can I get a second longer oversized stud for the alternator bracket?


Thank you much appreciated

Art
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Old 11-17-2020, 06:56 PM
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I viewed the MMI video on the stud replacement kit. The kit stud is fully threaded and very long so t can be cut to any required length.
The only remaining question is how get a second repair stud?

Best Art
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Old 11-17-2020, 07:11 PM
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Hi Art
I'm going to send you a PM.
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Old 11-17-2020, 07:19 PM
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I don't have pm enabled


Best Art

Last edited by ArtJ; 11-18-2020 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 11-18-2020, 09:04 AM
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I found the replacement studs on line and ordered 2 studs.
I already have a 7/16 14 tap and a full set of drlls.
I plan to tape off the taps and drills to avoid going beyond depth.

Both of these studs are on the non manifold side of the engine
therefore depth of drilling tapping should not be as critical as the manifold
side.

Some after thoughts
Because I could not find a torque spec for the studs I assumed (incorrectly?)
that the tighter the better and used a 20 inch socket extension and
gave them nearly my full strength. Was this a mistake? I note that
the MMI video only lightly tightens the stud relying on JB weld to take
up the rest of the strain. It is also becoming winter here and the
temps have not been conducive to normal setting time for JB.

If any studs went completely thru the stud hole did they do any harm and
is that area part of the water jacket - I assume t is not the oil area??

Best Art
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtJ View Post
I found the replacement studs on line and ordered 2 studs.
I already have a 7/16 14 tap and a full set of drlls.
I plan to tape off the taps and drills to avoid going beyond depth.

Both of these studs are on the non manifold side of the engine
therefore depth of drilling tapping should not be as critical as the manifold
side.

Some after thoughts
Because I could not find a torque spec for the studs I assumed (incorrectly?)
that the tighter the better and used a 20 inch socket extension and
gave them nearly my full strength. Was this a mistake? I note that
the MMI video only lightly tightens the stud relying on JB weld to take
up the rest of the strain. It is also becoming winter here and the
temps have not been conducive to normal setting time for JB.

If any studs went completely thru the stud hole did they do any harm and
is that area part of the water jacket - I assume t is not the oil area??

Best Art
Per Don Moyer: Quote

"Step 9 on page P1-3 in our MMI Service and Overhaul Manual says to seat head studs only until the top of the threads on the stud just start to disappear into the block and then go only ˝ turn more. All studs go into the top of the main water jacket except for the one stud that intercepts one of the coil retaining bolts. There is no particular harm caused to the bottom of the studs by having them enter the water jacket . However, seating the studs below the top threads on the stud will remove some of the upper threads in the block and weaken the seating strength of the stud."
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Old 11-20-2020, 03:31 PM
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Just got the repair studs now I was happy that they take 3/8 fine head nuts

instructions
I followed Don Moyer's helpful Video and advice on replacing studs

I found that the 7/16 drill bit was too big a step from 3/8 head hole so I used 2 interium drill sizes

to get finally there. the 7/16 tap went well

Did drilling and tapping in accordance with the instructions being careful
not to drill too deep at Manifold or near coil area ( my studs were in a safe location) . Going to wait a few days for JB to set in this clmate before torqueing them.


Best Art

Best

Last edited by ArtJ; 11-20-2020 at 03:33 PM.
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