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  #26   IP: 174.89.8.43
Old 10-24-2020, 04:47 PM
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Hot Tanking

When they do this at the shop, does that process work to flush out the fine rust sediment that has built up around #4 cylinder and the end block wall?
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  #27   IP: 174.89.8.43
Old 10-25-2020, 11:39 AM
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When people have had their block hot tanked/cleaned, have you also have them do the oil pan and transmission case?

If yes, how best to get the shifter cross brace out before hand? Or does one just leave it in?
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Last edited by GregH; 10-25-2020 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 10-25-2020, 07:16 PM
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Head Studs

The pics are of the head studs. The threads look like they had pliers used on them before I got the boat. Are these good enough that I can run a die over them to clean up the threads and carry on ?
The second pic is of the thermostat cover studs. On the right hand one there is a groove about 1/2" long on smooth body of the stud. This looks to be the area that would sit in the sleeve of the thermostat housing. So would it be ok?

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Old 10-25-2020, 08:18 PM
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Hate it when folks do that! That's exactly why the Snap-On stud remover is such a nice tool.
I think you'll be fine if you run a die over those threads. On reinstall, don't use a pipe wrench. At least, just jam two nuts together to seat the stud in the block. I install to 35 ft-lb - if there's a problem, find it as early as possible.
After the head is in place, use some lube on the threads and between the nut and washer. I use the silvery anti-seize from Permatex. Some black moly grease would be an alternate. Anything is better than nothing.

No need to tank the oil pan or transmission housing. Personally, I recommend changing the reversing gear cross shaft with the stainless one from our host. Do those two seals as well as the aft seal while waiting for the block.

Last edited by Al Schober; 10-25-2020 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 11-01-2020, 02:13 PM
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Idler Spindle

The Moyer idler spindle remover worked like a charm. But, ummm, how do I remove the threaded portion from the spindle? I can't back it off with just hand pressure and I don't want to use anything that would damage it.

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  #31   IP: 98.117.4.37
Old 11-01-2020, 05:35 PM
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Idler shaft puller

Hi Greg,

Hopefully you didn't tighten the inside part of the puller too tightly, in which case you should be able to wrap some protective material around the spindle and hold it gently with a pair of vise grips. Thin cardboard, like a piece of file folder material should work. I always held the spindle on the smaller end that goes into the block so that if I ended up with any dings I could take a small file and dress that area up a bit. Don
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  #32   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 11-02-2020, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Moyer View Post
Hi Greg,

Hopefully you didn't tighten the inside part of the puller too tightly, in which case you should be able to wrap some protective material around the spindle and hold it gently with a pair of vise grips. Thin cardboard, like a piece of file folder material should work. I always held the spindle on the smaller end that goes into the block so that if I ended up with any dings I could take a small file and dress that area up a bit. Don
Well I thought I put it on only finger tight.. but my assumption is the screwing down the outside section tightened the inside part.

I'll try the carboard on the THIN section tonight.

Note: upon reflection - I did not hold the inner screw steady with a wrench while screwing down the outside section- so it tightened it down the inner screw way too much.
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Last edited by GregH; 11-02-2020 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 11-04-2020, 04:46 PM
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Thumbs up +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Moyer View Post
Hi Greg,

Hopefully you didn't tighten the inside part of the puller too tightly, in which case you should be able to wrap some protective material around the spindle and hold it gently with a pair of vise grips. Thin cardboard, like a piece of file folder material should work. I always held the spindle on the smaller end that goes into the block so that if I ended up with any dings I could take a small file and dress that area up a bit. Don
Well that did work - using the narrower section and I did have to gently dress up the two spots.

+1
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  #34   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 11-05-2020, 02:38 PM
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ok on Monday I am taking the following into the shop (pardon my not knowing the correct terms here):

Block
- magnaflux test and from the result of that if good
- honing cylinders
- removing cam and idler bearings
- hot tanking
- prep/level surface? (letting me know how much removed in case need another head gasket)

Head
- Prep/level surface

Manifold
Pistons
Cam
Crank
- so they can measure clearances for me as I don't have the right tools nor experience for that. - need to provide specs from manual.

What am I missing?
- Should removed bearings be tossed or can they be reused?
- Should clearances be done before anything else but the magnaflux as the bearings will still be in for that?
- What else....
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Last edited by GregH; 11-05-2020 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 11-05-2020, 07:33 PM
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Take the reversing gear cover. Have them drill/tap the manifold side for the Kaminsky mod.
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  #36   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 11-06-2020, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Schober View Post
Take the reversing gear cover. Have them drill/tap the manifold side for the Kaminsky mod.
Right!
Forgotten about that one.

https://moyermarine.com/techtip001-2-2-2-2-2/
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Last edited by GregH; 11-06-2020 at 09:02 AM.
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  #37   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 11-17-2020, 04:13 PM
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Alternator Fan Direction

Direct drive A4. Flywheel end I'm designating as "front"...

When standing at the "front" looking at the alternator, which direction do the aux drive and alt pulley spin? Counter-Clockwise?
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Old 12-31-2020, 12:59 PM
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Piston & Cylinders

The shop has called and said that the cylinders need boring. Such that I'll need +0.020 pistons for it.

Now I am very much a Noob at this. What is the difference between needing a 020 piston versus needing 020 rings on a standard piston?
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Old 12-31-2020, 03:32 PM
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Greg, piston clearance is important. Your pistons in a .020" bore would slap around and destroy themselves and/or the bores.

How much taper was reported to require the over bore?

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Old 01-01-2021, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
Greg, piston clearance is important. Your pistons in a .020" bore would slap around and destroy themselves and/or the bores.

How much taper was reported to require the over bore?

Dave Neptune
Sorry for not understanding.

If using +020 pistons, does that mean they need +020 sized rings on them? Or are the +020 sized rings meant to be used on std sized pistons?

I do not have the details yet about the bore.
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Old 01-01-2021, 10:45 AM
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Yes the piston and rings are sized to the bore. You can go .005" over on the rings when a "clean -up" bore is done, which means the piston is .005 under which is somewhat acceptable.

Again how much taper (wear) is there in your bores?

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Old 01-01-2021, 11:45 AM
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I won't be able to find out the taper until the business opens again next week. Will try and get some more info.

They by standard practice prefer to replace all bearings so they are fresh. None of the bearings, journals, etc need to be different size than standard I'm told. Of course I'm of the mind to keep the bearings, etc if that's the case. Or is that the wrong thinking ?
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Old 01-01-2021, 11:55 AM
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If it is apart and std bearings will still work GO $ THE NEW, worth the money!

Get the bore info, it may not really be necessary to bore. Perhaps a clean up hone will do it and save the pistons.

I am curious as to why they say go .020" over, or is it they "happen" to have those pistons on the shelf and need to "sell" them. Or there is a lot of damage in one of the bores.

Do you know about where the compression was before dis-assembly? And why was it tore down in the first place. I have not read the entire thread .

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Old 01-01-2021, 11:58 AM
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Related question to group:

What drives the choice between boreing and oversize pistons vs sleeving and standard pistons?
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Old 01-01-2021, 12:22 PM
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edward, my guess would be cost and the integrity of the material behind the bore. In a fresh water cooled engine I would probably go for the bore and the little extra torque that the displacement would yield. In a raw water (saltwater) cooled engine I would consider the sleeves only if there was still good integrity in the threads for the studs to get a good strong bite. If the block is breaking down I would consider a "block" from MMI and use all the parts still good from the old engine or go oversize on all of the studs and sleeve the block

I think availability of parts and personal confidence would be the consideration factor, while looking at the finances.

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Old 01-04-2021, 03:59 PM
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Has anyone heard of a shop wanting to replace the valve lifters/tappets just as a matter of fact?
Is this one of those things that since it's a rebuild best to just replace things?
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Old 01-05-2021, 11:08 AM
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Unless the lifters are damaged don't touch. The lifters wear to match the cam and should only run on the "cam lobe" it was installed in. They are now a matched set in any engine!

The cam and lifters are NEVER replaced separately by any mechanic worth his/her salt!!!

Note, I am now very skeptical of your shop choice and there knowledge.

I would suggest that once you get the taper info you find another shop to check the bores for necessity of a fresh bore. These are a slow turning low compression engine which is far more forgiving to bore tolerances.

Dave Neptune

Last edited by Dave Neptune; 01-05-2021 at 11:14 AM. Reason: more info
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  #48   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 02-02-2021, 04:49 PM
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items are at the border, soon to be here...

Once folks have all their parts and are ready to start re-assembly, roughly how long do people find it takes them. I am not asking about getting the engine to actually run at this point as I realize there could be many more factors that could come into play for that step.
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Old 02-03-2021, 01:39 PM
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With all the parts clean painted and ready to go it took me about 15 hours to put it together. That said, I plastigauge'd all the bearings and make sure stuff was on the 'right' size of spec as I assembled.

The good news is that my shop did a great job, everything was in spec and only real issue was the learning curve on using the ring compressor on that small of a piston and installing/setting staggering the rings. The 'instructions' that rings come wrapping are generic and IMO unclear. Also, assembling reversing gear tested my memory and I'm thankful for the pics on this forum.

You can see my 'puzzle' build on the forum. The last long post is few things that were 'Ah-ha' moments for me. Also, the cheap pen caps worked really well as connection rod stud bolt retainer/protectors/guides. ;^)

Good luck, take your time and resist the urge to use the hammer.
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Last edited by ronstory; 05-23-2021 at 07:51 PM. Reason: typos, and more typos
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Old 02-03-2021, 02:56 PM
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I rebuilt a toyota 22R engine 30 odd years back. That was a learning curve then too. I did it in a hobby shop and there was a good mechanic there. He told me 180 degrees for the gaps from the one below it. He also said, I remember this so clearly, that sometimes they move a bit anyway and he thought it was more from bore honing as opposed to vibration. That is basic mechanic stuff, sort of like take the sticky part off a band-aid if you want it to work. We all start somewhere and someone has to know what's going on. Sound like you have a good grip on it at the moment. Good Luck.

Edit: I was in med school then in the military. Was finishing up on a Friday and had a 900 mile drive to halifax over the weekend. I finished the engine on the Wednesday night and put a couple hundred easy miles on the Thursday evening. Friday afternoon loaded the Toyota 4x4 pickup with my gear and hit the hwy. Drove easy first few hours and hauled in frequently to check oil. After that I drove it harder...checked oil again. At that point it didn't drop on the stick so I dropped the hammer and got on with it. It never burned a drop of oil between oil changes for the next 5 years I owned it. I didn't know much about engines when I did that, was in med school at the time as well so had a lot on the go. It's a wonder I did it right.
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