Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Testing Protocols

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 09-02-2018, 11:57 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,049
Thanks: 167
Thanked 1,588 Times in 1,064 Posts
Finding TDC the easy way

A while back we had a tool concept for finding the compression stroke in a cylinder, critical when setting timing from scratch, without peering or inserting anything into the spark plug hole. Remember this?

Well it struck me as a pretty cool idea so I finally got around to making one and testing it out. I sacrificed an old spark plug by breaking off the porcelain, drilling out the electrode and grinding off the arm on the bottom, added a balloon to the top, threaded it into the #1 spark plug hole finger tight only and turned the engine over by hand. Once you know you're on the compression stroke you view the crankshaft roll pin for vertical alignment.

Way cool.

__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 141.239.218.236
Old 09-03-2018, 01:40 PM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,008
Thanks: 22
Thanked 338 Times in 241 Posts
Neil-
IF you decide to mass produce...
can we have a variety of color choices on the balloons?
__________________
-Jerry

'Lone Ranger'

1978 RANGER 30
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 09-03-2018, 01:50 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,049
Thanks: 167
Thanked 1,588 Times in 1,064 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
Neil-
IF you decide to mass produce...
can we have a variety of color choices on the balloons?
Yes, you may . . .
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 009.jpg (112.5 KB, 32 views)
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 141.239.218.236
Old 09-03-2018, 01:52 PM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,008
Thanks: 22
Thanked 338 Times in 241 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Yes, you may . . .
I'm ALL IN!
__________________
-Jerry

'Lone Ranger'

1978 RANGER 30
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 67.176.202.26
Old 09-03-2018, 08:38 PM
Sam Sam is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 183
Thanks: 138
Thanked 65 Times in 54 Posts
Very cool. Only thing I can add is that on this site you will either "learn" or get "entertained".
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 76.66.159.112
Old 09-03-2018, 09:25 PM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 447
Thanks: 268
Thanked 53 Times in 46 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Very cool. Only thing I can add is that on this site you will either "learn" or get "entertained".

And that is why they call it enterlearnment!
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 70.186.110.20
Old 09-03-2018, 10:15 PM
CajunSpike's Avatar
CajunSpike CajunSpike is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 240
Thanks: 222
Thanked 39 Times in 31 Posts
You must also consider the oxygen permability of the rubber as to the accuracy of the device. More or less rubber thickness may distort the results.









:-)

Yes I'm kidding.
__________________
Bill L.
1972 Ericson 27
Hull #61
Atomic 4
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 108.24.164.223
Old 05-08-2020, 01:32 PM
ALMA ALMA is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Outside Philly
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
TDC

If a Vee drive prevents a visual of TDC there is a notch in the Accessory Drive that tells TDC too-
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 138.207.175.104
Old 05-08-2020, 05:22 PM
Administrator's Avatar
Administrator Administrator is offline
MMI Webmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chestertown, MD (Langford Creek)
Posts: 2,198
Thanks: 1,335
Thanked 350 Times in 176 Posts
I hope that forum members will appreciate the engineering complexities at work with Neil's device.
  1. The size of the balloon at various inflated pressures/volumes. A weather balloon won't work.
  2. The elasticity of the balloon. A stainless steel balloon won't work.
  3. The influence of color. Beyond my bachelor's degree in engineering.
  4. The influence of atmospheric pressure. Ditto.
  5. The influence of oxygen permeability, as pointed out by Spike. Way beyond.

All this stuff makes my head hurt, but kudos once again to Neil.

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 05-08-2020, 05:57 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,049
Thanks: 167
Thanked 1,588 Times in 1,064 Posts
On your last two considerations:

4. There is zero atmospheric influence on the indicator short of being in a perfect vacuum. It reads only the pressure delta above ambient created by the moving piston in a closed cylinder.

5. Nitrogen permeability would be a 4X greater concern considering the chemical composition of air.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 165.225.38.121
Old 05-08-2020, 06:20 PM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 259
Thanks: 183
Thanked 85 Times in 70 Posts
for durability we would probably need to develop a balloon resistance test to Marvel Mistery Oil vapors too!
__________________
Surcouf
Almost There - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 32.211.28.40
Old 05-08-2020, 06:20 PM
Al Schober's Avatar
Al Schober Al Schober is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Uncasville, CT
Posts: 1,736
Thanks: 10
Thanked 343 Times in 262 Posts
Since the air in the balloon has come thru the carb, it just might be flammable. Gives me all sorts of thoughts...
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 99.30.185.198
Old 05-08-2020, 06:26 PM
thatch thatch is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Santa clarita, Ca.
Posts: 1,060
Thanks: 152
Thanked 204 Times in 116 Posts
Probably shouldn't go there

Al, Have you ever heard of an acetylene bomb?
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 155.186.124.219
Old 05-08-2020, 07:11 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lake Arrowhead Ca.
Posts: 4,323
Thanks: 505
Thanked 588 Times in 409 Posts
Tom, my dad made acetylene balloons for parties. Only he knew which ones were which on the patio. Mom would get mad so he'd blow one up near her and the laughs would start.

I did some torch silver soldering for a while. we had coffee cans on the bench with water for keeping our "prods" clean of flux. If someone was bothering me I would fill a can upside-down and when they'd come back to annoy me I'd wave the torch past a hole. After the second time I moved the fluorescent lights a foot or so. Lots of can dents over my bench!

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 99.30.185.198
Old 05-08-2020, 07:15 PM
thatch thatch is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Santa clarita, Ca.
Posts: 1,060
Thanks: 152
Thanked 204 Times in 116 Posts
Dave, I was pretty sure that you would have played with them.
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 155.186.124.219
Old 05-09-2020, 11:05 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lake Arrowhead Ca.
Posts: 4,323
Thanks: 505
Thanked 588 Times in 409 Posts
Tom, I just could not resist .

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 137.103.82.227
Old 05-09-2020, 01:33 PM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,771
Thanks: 49
Thanked 562 Times in 413 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
A while back we had a tool concept for finding the compression stroke in a cylinder, critical when setting timing from scratch, without peering or inserting anything into the spark plug hole. Remember this?

Well it struck me as a pretty cool idea so I finally got around to making one and testing it out. I sacrificed an old spark plug by breaking off the porcelain, drilling out the electrode and grinding off the arm on the bottom, added a balloon to the top, threaded it into the #1 spark plug hole finger tight only and turned the engine over by hand. Once you know you're on the compression stroke you view the crankshaft roll pin for vertical alignment.

Way cool.

That looks like a fun project It certainly will keep you from finding TDC on the exhaust stroke
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 32.211.28.40
Old 05-09-2020, 11:29 PM
Al Schober's Avatar
Al Schober Al Schober is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Uncasville, CT
Posts: 1,736
Thanks: 10
Thanked 343 Times in 262 Posts
Well, this has been an amusing thread!
Just what I needed during this isolation. Spring trip to NOLA cancelled, instead we got to visit Loch Down. I hear that even Nessie is now in Loch Down.
So, all this is just to keep from putting your thumb over the spark plug hole?
No, the idea of acetylene balloons is new to me. Haven't tried one. Do they make your voice funny??
Another week or two of this and we can start a thread on vegetable guns. I've still got my potato cannon out in the shed - SpudZooka! I had the design for a radish pistol, but never made one.
Reply With Quote
  #19   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 05-10-2020, 12:04 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,049
Thanks: 167
Thanked 1,588 Times in 1,064 Posts
One thing I noticed with the balloon indicator - - you can turn the engine very slowly by hand and still get a good indication. Oh yeah, you can turn the engine with TWO hands.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #20   IP: 137.103.82.227
Old 05-10-2020, 03:31 PM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,771
Thanks: 49
Thanked 562 Times in 413 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Schober View Post
Well, this has been an amusing thread!
Just what I needed during this isolation. Spring trip to NOLA cancelled, instead we got to visit Loch Down. I hear that even Nessie is now in Loch Down.
So, all this is just to keep from putting your thumb over the spark plug hole?
No, the idea of acetylene balloons is new to me. Haven't tried one. Do they make your voice funny??
Another week or two of this and we can start a thread on vegetable guns. I've still got my potato cannon out in the shed - SpudZooka! I had the design for a radish pistol, but never made one.
Acetylene balloons explode We made some at random torch settings when we were teenagers. Then we got the bright idea to use a big gallon jug and set the mix just right. My friend's father ended up falling off his chair on the front porch and further use of his welding tanks was curtailed
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Finding TDC the easy way ndutton Ignition System 26 05-14-2020 11:02 AM
Finding TDC (top dead center) jpian0923 Drawings and Schematics 4 09-18-2016 07:25 PM
Easy distributor question positron Ignition System 15 03-15-2012 06:29 PM
If torqueing was easy , Laker General Interest 14 01-27-2011 03:51 PM
An Easy Fix rpowers Troubleshooting 3 07-26-2010 05:58 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2020 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved