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  #1   IP: 24.12.53.69
Old 05-06-2008, 04:37 PM
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domagami domagami is offline
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Gas Shut Off Valve Replacement

Hi -

Tempting fate, but I'll risk it. My first season of doing my own winterizing and getting back to running, with substantial help from the newsletters and this forum - and all is running well. Started first crank and everything seems to be working. Mostly...

I have a leak in the gas shut off valve, between the tank and the bowl/pump. When open it drips about 1 drop/5 sec.

The version I have is probably original to the engine and the '67 Pearson it is attached to. The pipe is copper (I assume) and has flared ends. The valve screws to the threaded caps over the pipe fittings. At the seat of the valve lever is a threaded cover, I've tightened it down but that does not seem to slow the leak.

I don't see a replacement in your parts. Can you suggest another source? This is copper, right?

I would think I can replace at least one of the copper pipe fittings (between the valve and the pump) with the tubing you sell, but still need a valve.

The existing hardware seems to be 1/4 or 5/16" copper tubing, with flared ends to meet the fitting on the valve.

Would love a recommendation on replacing it. I don't see what I need at my local mega-store.

Also, in your product list I see you rig the fuel filter hanging below the pump and carb. Mind is set up with a kind of upside down U shaped hose, filter on the downhill side. Is one route preferred? Mine seems to work fine.

Thanks again,

Mick
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Old 05-06-2008, 04:42 PM
adab1402 adab1402 is offline
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fuel valve

west marine online . adab ps dont foget teflon tape on the threads .
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  #3   IP: 38.102.16.123
Old 05-06-2008, 06:59 PM
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Don Moyer Don Moyer is offline
 
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Mick,

West Marine sells several different fuel shut off valves. In terms of the routing of the inline polishing filter, I can't think of a preference.

Don
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Old 05-06-2008, 09:23 PM
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domagami domagami is offline
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Thanks Don.

Any comment from Don or anyone else on the teflon tape suggestion? I've read both to use it, and to definitely not use it (when dealing directly with gasoline).

Thanks again to all.
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:38 PM
HerbertFriedman HerbertFriedman is offline
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Gas shut off valve replacement

there are two kinds of teflon tape at least that I know of, white for liquids and yellow for gas (not to be confused with gasoline). The yellow is thicker and meant for high pressure gas applications. The white is for liquids and presumably for low pressures but being teflon it is impervious for almost any corrosive liquid that I can think of, certainly it is OK for gasoline. Some boat yards will not use teflon for diesel applications because they confuse gas with gasoline and diesel is different, they are just wrong. There is actually a mil spec for teflon tape and roughly it says that you start the teflon after the first thread leaving that first thread exposed. I think some boat yards do not like teflon tape for diesels because they apply the tape on the first thread, which gets cut and can clog the fuel injector jets downstream but if you follow the mil spec there should be no problem. Then you wrap two or three turns of tape on the threads and screw in the fitting. Be sure that you wrap the tape in the "tightening direction" and do not back off the fitting at all or it will leak.
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Old 05-07-2008, 09:33 AM
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I don't want to push too hard on what is at root a personal preference, but I avoid Teflon tape (even after sorting out which color is designed for
gasoline) because of its tendency to shed small tidbits of tape which we see lodged in carburetors, fuel pumps, and connecting tubing and filters. By using due caution, you can probably avoid the problem of creating these tidbits of tape, but even then I find Teflon paste (or Permatex Aviation brand sealer) to be as, or more, effective than Teflon tape and friendlier to use.

Don
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:05 AM
policecentral policecentral is offline
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Teflon

With brass flared fittings or compression fittings you should not use teflon tape or compound. The brass will slightly reform the threads and create a seal when tightened properly. Tape or compounds should be used only on iron pipe/fittings.

JSM
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Old 05-07-2008, 02:59 PM
76ericson29 76ericson29 is offline
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Fuel Shutoff

I have used a solenoid valve for 20 years. I was getting drips from carb when I shut down. Also my fuel tank is higher than carb which made me nervous about float needle holding back 18 gallon of fuel. My manual shut off was in the engine space requiring removal of steps and engine cover to shut off or on. Annoying. I added an 3/8" ASCO 8030 solenoid in the fuel hose between filter and fuel pump. Tapped power at top of coil. Solenoid is open on energize. When ignition key is turned on coil energizes and solenoid opens. (I also tapped ignition key to bilge blower so I can never forget to pause and check air. When I turn the fan off though - I have to remember to reset when I shut down engine.)
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:16 PM
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domagami domagami is offline
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Thanks to all for the comments here. A bit of follow-up for the record, just in case anyone is searching on this topic at a later date.

After a lot of reading elsewhere, the general consensus seems to be that for both gas (propane, etc.) and gasoline (including diesel) the use of white teflon is not recommended. In any gas application yellow teflon is more appropriate. (So I guess I should make a change to my grill fitting...)

As an example, a Coast Tape product reads:
"Meeting the Mil. Spec T-27730A this tape is a UL approved Listed Seal Material (2S98). Specifically manufactured for use in heavy industry this seal tape is for use in petroleum lines as well as natural gases."
* MATERIAL: PTFE & PIGMENT
* THICKNESS: 4 MILS
* DENSITY: 1.2 G/CM3
* ELONGATION: 50% MIN.
* TENSILE STRENGTH: 0.7 KGF/MM2
* COMBUSTION: NON-COMBUSTION
* CONFORMITY: MIL-T277301, UL-1321

"FOR USE ON THREADED JOINTS OF METAL IN ASSEMBLIES HANDLING GASOLINE, PETROLEUM OILS, PROPANE, BUTANE, NAPHTHA, BENZENE, KEROSENE, NATURAL GAS (PRESSURE NOT OVER 100 PSIG)."


Like Don, I agree it's a matter of personal preference, and like him, I have the nagging suspicion that in practice, I'd let a piece of tape get past somehow. (Although in this situation it is upstream of both the bowl and the filter.)

As to sealant...

I read the spec sheet for Permatex Form-A-Gasket and appears to be safe for gasoline applications, and for the pressures and temperature range in this setting. I also asked the support desk at Permatex for a 'blessing' of sorts to use Form-A-Gasket, below is their email reply.

"Many Thanks for your interest in Permatex products
Permatex , would recommend The Hi.Temp. Thraed Sealant
P/N 59235 , It is Oil & Fuel resistant , design to resist temperatures
to 400 F , it is non-hardening to resist pressure to 10,000 psi , and
can be re-torque ( up to 24 hours without adding new product )"

Since I'm pretty sure the gas will not get near 400F, I think Form-A-Gasket is the choice after reading the spec sheet. (And it is also fuel resistant and rated for up to 400F)

I understand JSM's comment on the flared fitting reforming the threads, however, this is 40 years old and it might just need a bit of help to mesh up perfectlly.

Either way, I'm probably using Permatex.

Again, thanks for the feedback and information from all, and thanks to Don for providing the forum to make it possible.

Best,

Mick
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