#51
IP: 107.131.11.88
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OK everyone...so, boats been running great all up until this pas Saturday...not much wind, so we went for a motor up to Laguna Beach...longest on motor since my initial problem last summer...it was a little choppy, confused seas and lots of power boat wakes, so we were getting tossed around a bit...
And then it happened again, engine stalled due to fuel supply issue. Got it to restart and then it ran for about 20 min or so, then stalled again and would not restart. Clearly fuel supply issue but since I still haven't installed a fuel pressure gauge... it could be the carb again, or a blockage somewhere in the fuel system. Next day went down and she fired right back up and ran for hours no problem (in the slip, both in gear and in neutral). Removed fuel filter (plastic opaque, i know not ideal) and blew threw it and seemed like passage was clear. - side note...I shut off the fuel valve to see how long the engine would run until dry...it was about 3 minutes and change to use up the fuel in the bowl of the carb as well as through all the lines - I think I may have a dirty fuel tank, and when getting all tossed around while out on open water, the sediment got all stirred up and clogged us. So, my plan now is to re-do my whole fuel system arrangement. I will place the Fuel/Water separator right after Fuel tank...then run that to the fuel pump, then get a proper polishing filter from Moyer to place between fuel pump and carb. I will also remove carb again to see if the float is bent again, but I don't think it is. I also want to try to clean out the tank as best I can without removing it yet...I plan to use my old (spare fuel pump, and rig up a filter system to circulate back to the tank and run this for a while, changing filters as needed with the hop of getting some of the sediment/debris out of the tank. I know this won't be a permanent fix, but easy enough to rig and run. Couple questions regarding the carb... 1. is it possible for a float to get stuck in the closed position not allowing fuel to fill the bowl? All the research I have done is mostly floats sticking in the open position, flooding too much fuel. 2. What would have or could have cause the float to get bent in the first place (that is what had happened the first time I had my fuel supply issue). 3. I will have to re-do the whole fuel line set up, reposition the fuel pump as well...does it have to remain mounted in the vertical position (electric facet fuel pump). 4. Placement of the pressure gauge...best to be right before the carb after all filters, pumps, etc? |
#52
IP: 155.186.124.219
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Adam;
#1 Very unlikely a float gets stuck closed especially with the vibration of running. #2 The float was bent before or during assembly. Perhaps the carb was dropped, just be careful. #3 The pump should be mounted vertical. #4 Yes the gage should be just before the carb. I suggest mounting a 1/8" ball valve on the gage. Good place to shut the fuel off!! AND, since the engine was also well warmed up as well as the coil. Since it restarted after a possible 20 minute cooling time it could well be suspect. Did you check for spark? The first thing to check after the engine just dies and your not out of fuel is the SPARK. If the engine died abruptly this is a likely scenario. If it sputtered, stumbled and died it could maybe be the fuel delivery. Do you have a remote start switch mounted, may just add that to your shopping list. Dave Neptune |
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#53
IP: 107.131.11.88
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#54
IP: 138.207.175.104
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Where did you purchase the coil? Did you test its resistance?
Bill |
#55
IP: 107.131.11.88
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But any insight on how to do it properly here as well would be helpful. |
#56
IP: 45.49.35.172
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Thus, take a look at your receipt and see exactly which rebuild kit you ordered. If it says "early model", you know that it is the wrong kit. Then look at the gasket between the two halves and you can bet that it doesnt cover the fifth screw. And you know that groovy shiny adjustment knob that came with the early model rebuild kit, which the directions say to install at the aft bottom of the carb...it doesn't belong on your late model carb. Rather, your carb just has a bolt-type plug in that goes there with a very specific size O-ring. The jet that is within that plug, as well as all the other jets, are all different too in the late model. Dont fret as I did about cross threading by placing early model jets etc. in a late model carb, the threads are the same in both rebuild kits. Hope that helps. Keep plugging away. I just got my late model A4 running again today after a six month adventure which included an engine swap (due to a thrashed #2 journal caused by me not putting oil in the early model engine, which is now in my garage waiting to be rebuilt) and rebuilding the late model A4 on my boat now with almost all new parts and a whole lot of fails. And it was all thanks to the patience and mentoring within this community and especially ndutton. FYI, six months ago, all I knew about engines was how to change a spark plug and put oil and gas (but I even failed at putting oil as you can see). I didn't even know what a carb was, let alone having the confidence to take it out and rebuild it. I have yet to learn as I am having a fuel delivery issue, but I digress. Good luck and please keep us posted. |
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AFisch (04-02-2020) |
#57
IP: 24.152.132.140
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All good info Ando except for one thing. The picture in post #9 of this thread is of an early model carburetor. Your experiences and advice are spot on otherwise though.
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#58
IP: 107.131.11.88
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#59
IP: 45.49.35.172
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Thank you, Neil. I looked at the pic again and realized: 1. having fifth screw in and of itself doesn't mean it is a late model carb; and 2. I see now how the configuration of the gasket area is in Afisch's early model. Still learning
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#60
IP: 45.49.35.172
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The Following User Says Thank You to Ando For This Useful Post: | ||
AFisch (04-02-2020) |
#61
IP: 107.131.11.88
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I don't think I have an air leak, but I will find a way of checking. |
#62
IP: 70.185.132.167
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Sediment in the tank gets stirred up by the boat's motion and is sucked up against the end the tanks fuel outlet tube and is held there by the suction of the fuel pump. The engine dies and the sediment drops off because there is no longer any suction from the fuel pump. Have you tried running from an auxiliary tank? ex TRUE GRIT |
#63
IP: 137.103.82.227
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The Following User Says Thank You to joe_db For This Useful Post: | ||
AFisch (04-03-2020) |
#64
IP: 107.131.11.88
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If it is sediment...it all settled back when slitting in the slip overnight. |
#65
IP: 24.152.132.140
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Your fuel tank sediment theory may be correct but as yet it is not at all conclusive. Notice that the 13 step MMI Shutdown Checklist directs you to check the ignition function first, not just the spark plugs but the entire ignition system function.
To the quotation above, an overheated coil will cease to produce spark resulting in a shutdown but here is the perplexing part - - after it cools it will seem to heal itself and operate as before but for a shorter time before it quits again. That may have been the case with your recent shutdown and subsequent restart the following day. The sequence of events and time periods between DO NOT eliminate the coil as a possible cause, not yet. More testing is needed.
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
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AFisch (04-03-2020) |
#66
IP: 107.131.11.88
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Decided to fire up the engine for a few moments just for good measure. Keep in mind I have not checked the resistance of the coil yet...but it did take about 6-7 times of trying to turn then engine over before she fired up...Turn the key, starter tries to engage, but no spark...6 or 7 times later, I get spark and it fires up. Now that I am becoming more familiar with everything (thanks to you guys)...this does lead me to believe that it is a spark issue after all...prob related to a shitty coil, and probably also related to old spark plugs. Does this sound right?? I will do the resistance check and maybe even just put my old coil back on, and i will replace spark plugs. Just want to make sure I am ordering the right plugs for the old Palmer. Anything I should be looking for in-particular for the plugs? I've recently replaced the condenser in the distributor...will the plugs in the "tuneup kit" from the Moyer website be the right ones for a Palmer if anyone knows? (I'd like to support Moyer if possible) |
#67
IP: 137.103.82.227
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I found an old fuel pressure gauge. If you don't mind the glycerine being a bit brown send me your address and it is yours.
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#68
IP: 107.131.11.88
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I still think it is now spark related, but good to have an install anyways since I will be re-doing my whole fuel line set up. I had my personal info on here, but decided to send you a PM I trust you guys, but don't know whose lurking in from behind the scenes I'd be more than happy to pay the shipping...the very least I could do! Last edited by AFisch; 04-14-2020 at 12:32 PM. |
#69
IP: 155.186.124.219
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Adam, I sent you a PM, check for it.
Dave Neptune |
#70
IP: 47.142.139.134
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Have you checked the boat's part of the ignition system key -> coil?
Start the engine and shake the wires. Especially at the end connectors. If there is any intermittent loose connections the engine will stop. Also there is a plug(s) in the wiring between the key and the coil pull it apart to see if the contacts are clean and bright. ex TRUE GRIT |
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AFisch (04-15-2020) |
#71
IP: 107.131.11.88
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Also, had a great phone call with Dave Neptune yesterday (I really appreciate it Dave!) this whole forum as been so helpful. He suggested the same thing as a something for me to check. Really opened my eyes to other possibilities and easy to do routine checks. Again, everyone on here has been so helpful, I can't thank you all enough! |
#72
IP: 107.3.176.227
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Engine stalling
Don’t know if you are still having this issue but I had a similar problem with my Palmer 60 for a year after I had replaced the cylinder head on the engine. Ran fine for about a half hour or more and then would gradually stall and would not restart until it cooled down. After chasing all of the same issues you described with no luck finally found the solution in the strangest place. Turns out that there is a small fitting and hose at the front (flywheel side) of the engine that is designed to vent steam that will build up in that side of the engine and not allow the front cylinder to properly cool. The reason for this vent is that the mounting of the engine tilting back front to back to accommodate a sailboat means that side of the engine is higher and would create an air pocket of steam if not released. The excess heat is most likely causing that cylinder to pre-fire as the fuel ignites before the fuel is compressed. The solution was as simple as making sure that the vent hose was open completely on both ends. Turns out that a little crustation had built a home there and plugged the vent. I used a paper clip to open the vent and have not had a problem since. A thank you to David Grosse mentioned earlier for the initial suggestion.
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#73
IP: 107.3.176.227
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Starting issue
Reaching out to this tread for some additional assistance. Recently rebuilt my Zenith carb and after some lengthy tweaking (becoming an expert at removing and taking the carb apart) have it running fine but cannot get to start when cold. My only solution currently is to physically “choke” the carb by putting my hand over the intake to create enough suction to get fuel into the cylinders. Once it starts and is warm will restart every time. When it cools completely overnight need to go back to the manual process. This should happen with the choke but does not create enough suction. Did not make any changes to the choke on rebuild other than reattach the cable. Any thoughts? I’ve tried everything I can think of. Thank you.
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#74
IP: 47.142.136.120
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How did you adjust the choke cable?
Here's the correct way. In the cockpit support the knob ~ 1/4" off the stop by wrapping wire or something else around it. At the carburetor secure the outer cover and pass the center wire through the choke. Hold the choke open, and pull the center wire tight with pair of pliers and tighten the hold down screw on the choke. This takes two hands and a tail but it can be done. Remove the wire that is holding the knob up off the stop, pull the knob up, and check to see if the choke is fully closed. When you open the choke all the way the knob will be ~ 1/4" off the stop. ex TRUE GRIT Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 03-08-2021 at 06:30 PM. |
#75
IP: 192.186.122.174
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__________________
Greg 1975 Alberg 30 |
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W2ET (03-08-2021) |
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