Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Troubleshooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 70.54.31.229
Old 07-02-2021, 04:12 PM
wetbirks wetbirks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 44
Thanks: 14
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Trouble starting engine - valve open?

I am troubleshooting an engine that won't start. I have a brand new battery that's fully charged so I'm moving on to gas delivery. At the top of my gas tank I see a valve. Should it be open or closed?

See attached photo

Thank you
Attached Images
 

Last edited by wetbirks; 07-03-2021 at 10:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 32.211.28.40
Old 07-02-2021, 04:42 PM
Al Schober's Avatar
Al Schober Al Schober is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Uncasville, CT
Posts: 2,002
Thanks: 16
Thanked 578 Times in 405 Posts
That's a 1/4 turn plug valve for shutting off the fuel. I'd guess that yours is in the OFF position.
Those valves are prone to corrosion, making them hard to turn. But make them too loose and they leak air into the fuel line (yours is at the top of the syphon).
My choice would be a stainless ball valve. Connect to the tank fitting with a nipple. Other side goes to your fuel line, with either a barb fitting or a longer nipple with the threads cut off one end (doesn't chew up the hose like a barbed fitting).
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 162.219.70.239
Old 07-02-2021, 04:45 PM
Peter's Avatar
Peter Peter is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 297
Thanks: 162
Thanked 140 Times in 101 Posts
Open to run engine, closed otherwise.

In the closed position it prevents fuel from siphoning out of the tank if a leak develops somewhere in the system. Valve is mandated by CG I believe.

Peter

Al beat me to it
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 32.211.28.40
Old 07-02-2021, 04:56 PM
Al Schober's Avatar
Al Schober Al Schober is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Uncasville, CT
Posts: 2,002
Thanks: 16
Thanked 578 Times in 405 Posts
Peter,
You snooze, you lose. Tell us about your avatar???
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 162.219.70.239
Old 07-02-2021, 05:41 PM
Peter's Avatar
Peter Peter is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 297
Thanks: 162
Thanked 140 Times in 101 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Schober View Post
Peter,
You snooze, you lose. Tell us about your avatar???
That is a picture taken on a dead calm day in about 10 feet of water just off Mason’s Island in Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia. Incredible how clear the water was and how calm it was.

Better wake up!

Peter
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 70.54.31.229
Old 07-02-2021, 07:14 PM
wetbirks wetbirks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 44
Thanks: 14
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Thank you all for your help so far. I opened that valve but the fuel is not running down the line. I know this because I opened the valve and then unscrew the hose clamp and looked inside and there is no fuel running and the line with dry.

Is there a pump that draws a fuel into the engine?
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 134.41.132.177
Old 07-02-2021, 07:41 PM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
Take a pic of the engine on the side where the carb is. A manual pump will be right behind the carb. An electric pump, depending on type, could be located in the same position or on a bulkhead close by. Pics will help. The guys are correct as well, that valve is closed. You likely won't see fuel unless you have a pump to pull it. Ensure on joints are closed well with clamps so it doesn't suck air.

Next, is this boat new to you. If so will want to know when it was last started, when that gas in tank was put in there, if it was treated with stabilizer. Bad gas is always a concern on engines that haven't been started in a while. When the engine is turning over ensure the choke is working.

Fuel
Fire
Compression.

All should be checked if this is a new to you engine or hasn't been fired up in a while.

Hope that helps, but we have to remember there sometimes a combination of things that cause an engine not to start. More info on the engine would be nice such as the last time it was running, if it has fire at the plugs and compression.
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 134.41.132.177
Old 07-02-2021, 07:45 PM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
That is a picture taken on a dead calm day in about 10 feet of water just off Mason’s Island in Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia. Incredible how clear the water was and how calm it was.

Better wake up!

Peter
Pretty common to look down at the bottom in 18 feet of water around here when its been calm for a little while. I'm off to Bra Dor Lakes in a few weeks...should be a good run. I"ve got over 600 nm on so far this season and expect to rack up another 600 on that trip alone.
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 47.142.136.235
Old 07-02-2021, 04:57 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
That valve will have to be open so fuel can get to the engine.
The raw water cooling valve should be closed when cranking a no start engine.
A fully charged battery does not guarantee that you have spark. Have you confirmed that you have spark? Have you tried shooting starting fluid into the carburetor while cranking the engine? We will be able to help further if you could supply details. The first step is to figure out if the no start is due to a problem with fuel, spark or compression since all three are needed for the engine to start.

ex TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JOHN COOKSON For This Useful Post:
Mo (07-02-2021), wetbirks (07-03-2021)
  #10   IP: 99.237.234.117
Old 07-03-2021, 10:04 AM
wetbirks wetbirks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 44
Thanks: 14
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post
That valve will have to be open so fuel can get to the engine.
The raw water cooling valve should be closed when cranking a no start engine.
A fully charged battery does not guarantee that you have spark. Have you confirmed that you have spark? Have you tried shooting starting fluid into the carburetor while cranking the engine? We will be able to help further if you could supply details. The first step is to figure out if the no start is due to a problem with fuel, spark or compression since all three are needed for the engine to start.

ex TRUE GRIT

Hi John, where might I find my raw water cooling valve?
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 174.77.161.253
Old 07-03-2021, 10:16 AM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wetbirks View Post
...where might I find my raw water cooling valve?
Look at the REAR (StarBoard) side of your engine and locate the WATER PUMP.
(See PIC #1)
Follow the hose attached to it to where it connects to a THRU HULL.
(See PIC #2)
Your valve may look a little different but basically you're looking for something with a valve attached to the hull.
(More reading on this HERE)
That valve feeds your cooling system and is commonly referred to as the Raw Water Cooling Valve.


On that note, Forum Crew...
We should maybe re-think how we refer to closing that "valve" for clarity to newbies? Just a thought.
Attached Images
  
__________________
-Jerry

'Lone Ranger'

1978 RANGER 30
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to roadnsky For This Useful Post:
TimBSmith (07-08-2021), wetbirks (07-03-2021)
  #12   IP: 99.237.234.117
Old 07-03-2021, 12:40 PM
wetbirks wetbirks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 44
Thanks: 14
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
"That valve feeds your cooling system and is commonly referred to as the Raw Water Cooling Valve."


Thank you for helping me locate that valve. I will turn it off when I try to start the engine again. At what point would I reopen it?
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 174.77.161.253
Old 07-03-2021, 01:26 PM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wetbirks View Post
Thank you for helping me locate that valve. I will turn it off when I try to start the engine again. At what point would I reopen it?
You'll open it as soon as the engine STARTS and is running.

That circled area (choke arm) is indeed what John was referring to.
In the below pics you can see how is is supposed to be attached.
Attached Images
   
__________________
-Jerry

'Lone Ranger'

1978 RANGER 30
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to roadnsky For This Useful Post:
TimBSmith (07-17-2021)
  #14   IP: 70.54.31.229
Old 07-03-2021, 03:07 PM
wetbirks wetbirks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 44
Thanks: 14
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
Look at the REAR (StarBoard) side of your engine and locate the WATER PUMP.
(See PIC #1)
Follow the hose attached to it to where it connects to a THRU HULL.
(See PIC #2)
Your valve may look a little different but basically you're looking for something with a valve attached to the hull.
(More reading on this HERE)
That valve feeds your cooling system and is commonly referred to as the Raw


On that note, Forum Crew...
We should maybe re-think how we refer to closing that "valve" for clarity to newbies? Just a thought.

Located the wrong water cooling valve. It was in the off position already.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 99.237.234.117
Old 07-03-2021, 06:14 PM
wetbirks wetbirks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 44
Thanks: 14
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
After doing a few things mentioned in this form, I'm convinced that my next step is to figure out an issue with fuel delivery. The manual fuel pump makes a continuous squeaky noise that doesn't seem to be drawing fuel into the engine. When I remove the clamps and pull the fuel lines in various locations between the tank and the fuel pump, the lines are all dry. So I am certain that there is no fuel passing through the fuel lines.

I added 20 L of fuel last week.

Any suggestions on my next steps to troubleshoot this?

Please recall that I did run the fuel tank empty prior to adding the new fuel.
Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 47.142.136.235
Old 07-03-2021, 10:29 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
The inner wire for the choke is not connected to the dohicky on the choke; it appears to be resting on the part itself. The engine will not start unless it is choked, especially when cold.
To review: To start the engine needs fuel, spark, compression
in the cylinders. Also the choke must be working and the spark needs to be at the right time (timing).
The raw cooling water intake valve in located on the hull of the boat at the other end of the water pump inlet hose. When you crank the engine the water pump is turning and pumping water. Exhaust pressure will blow this water out when the engine is running. When the engine isn't running water can accumulate in the exhaust system and flood back into the engine if the engine is no start cranked for to long of a period of time.
A BELATED WELCOME TO THE FORUM. We'll get your engine running. Hang in there.

ex TRUE GRIT

Edit: Jerry beat me to it with some excellent pictures

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 07-03-2021 at 10:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 99.237.234.117
Old 07-03-2021, 12:37 PM
wetbirks wetbirks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 44
Thanks: 14
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
[QUOTE=JOHN COOKSON;126028]The inner wire for the choke is not connected to the dohicky on the choke; it appears to be resting on the part itself. The engine will not start unless it is choked, especially when cold.


Is this what you're referring to? I'm heading down to the boat in about an hour and I will give it a closer inspection to make sure it is attached.

Thank you for the warm welcome! I so much appreciate the help I received.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Oil Leaking From Oil Pressure Valve ??? JGiffing Troubleshooting 13 08-20-2017 10:11 PM
How much voltage drop at Starter while cranking? JackConnick Ignition System 67 07-13-2014 01:03 PM
Engine Sputters and Coughs, and Needed Choke to Run Smooth CaptainChas Troubleshooting 9 06-30-2009 10:50 PM
Engine Dies after approx one hour Trysail Troubleshooting 4 08-07-2008 11:15 AM
Removing the engine from your boat Don Moyer General Interest 13 06-27-2008 11:06 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved