Stuck Exhaust Pipes

[T27_478]

I was troubleshooting some water in my crankcase today and ended up taking a look at the exhaust. This came with some good news and some bad news.

Good news: I know why I was getting water in the cylinders... it was backing up through the exhaust.

Bad news: The reason for the backup is the previous owner tried to mend the exhaust together with some sheetmetal and a bunch of hose clamps. This probably wouldn't hold the necessary pressure to eject the water from the muffler leading to a backup. Take a look at the below photo, at some point someone cut the old riser with a hack saw then added a 6" threaded nipple below it and mended it with sheetmetal (removed in the photo).

I tried to take off the cut portion of the pipe but the engine has been running hot for so long (another problem with the impeller being sheared but now fixed) that it's practically fused. I had a pipe wrench on it with a three foot pipe on the end of that for leverage... it wouldn't budge. Any suggestions on how to proceed? Can I get some sort of gasket to keep the two pipes together?

If it helps this is on a 1971 Tartan 27 with the original engine, and a really dumb previous owner.

[marthur]

I have a couple of thoughts:

First, it probably doesn't save any time to try to save any of the old pipe. It is pretty cheap to replace that pipe with new stuff from the hardware store. And you have the benefit of not having to deal with it again for some years. So I would look to make up all of the hot section except the standpipe and exhaust flange.

Second, you will probably have to cut that old pipe out. So what I am thinking is to use the hack saw to cut what is there. Then put the exhaust flange and standpipe on the workbench. Be sure to measure before you cut so you can duplicate any part you want to replace!
Then, working at the stubby ends sticking out of the flange and standpipe you can apply real heat (think MAP torch or oxy-acetalene, not propane). If that doesn't work, might make radial cuts and then collapse the pipe inward to remove it from the flange or standpipe. Be extra careful not to cut the component you want to reuse (but remember you can buy a new one from our host)!

One final thought: the PO made that cut for a reason. It could have been a really bad reason but he was thinking something. Was he attempting to work on or inspect the standpipe? Keep your eyes open for the problem that he was trying to fix. It might save having to work on it again

Good luck!
Mike

[T27_478]

Marthur,

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure how cutting the already cut pipe further will help get it out. Or are you suggesting I cut it right at the u-bend and then try and fold the threads back in to break them off? Won't that wreck the threads for my new pipe sections? I tried to rotate the standpipe but it was just as frozen to the manifold as the riser is to the standpipe. I'm hesitant to take a wrench to the manifold flange as the bolts are all totally rusted and I'm afraid about breaking one off and needing a new manifold.

I've been looking online and I'm thinking of getting some proper 1-3/4" flexible exhaust pipe (with the braided sheath around the bellows) to and slipping it over both sections here. Then I can tighten the whole thing up and apply some exhaust sealer. I know that this is similar to what the previous owner did but I'm hoping the superior materials (not tin foil) will stand the test of time. Thoughts?

[Dave Neptune]

Easier to replace?

T27, bight the bullet and redo it. It will be a lot less work to replace and the exhaust needs replacing every 5~8 years or so. The iron pipe is cheap and all you will need to do is get the flange off the manifold. If you have the manifold off and can really hold it I'd give it my all to get it loose "with advise" found here. And the manifold is also something with a finite life, the casting can rust through as it is thin and then a new one is needed!!! I'm on my second one in 29 years now.

It is much less work to cobble a new one than patching what may already be very plugged up~just not worth the effort. If your gonna work on it FIX it. A saying ~~ "Do it right and only cry once" ~~ from a racing buddy.

If the exhaust has been patched it is time to replace it!

Dave Neptune

[T27_478]

Dave,

I completely agree that it should be fixed right and fixed once and that half measures are just that. I butting up against two things here.

1) I'm aware that a Boat is a hole in the water into which one throws money, but I'm running out and spending a few hundred bucks on a new manifold would probably cause my wife to divorce me.

2) I'll probably get crucified on this forum for saying this but I plan on re-powering to an electric system this winter (thus saving money at the moment). If people are interested I can post my plans and updates as I re power on this forum but again, I'm pretty sure that's committing a mortal sin for this forum.

I'll try and get the flange , but I'll be ginger with it to not break anything off, then I can but $20 worth of pipe at menards and be back to sailing!

[roadnsky]

2) I'll probably get crucified on this forum for saying this but I plan on re-powering to an electric system this winter (thus saving money at the moment). If people are interested I can post my plans and updates as I re power on this forum but again, I'm pretty sure that's committing a mortal sin for this forum.

Nope! Not on this forum. In fact, just the opposite...
We'd love to hear reports back and wish you nothing but the best of luck!

[marthur]

I'm not sure how cutting the already cut pipe further will help get it out.

What I am suggesting is that you cut the pipe to facilitate removing all the components including the flange (or if necessary the manifold). I think you could get the pipe out of the flange and standpipe on your work bench without sacrificing the parts. If you need to remove the flange and are afraid of breaking a bolt, a machine shop could do the job for you at a reasonable cost. If you actually broke the bolt, they could also drill and retap the hole at a reasonable cost.

I am assuming that your manifold is in good shape and that you would be able to reuse it, but that it is much easier to work on when it is on your workbench. Once you get the old bits out of the manifold and standpipe, you could cheaply fabricate a new hot section out of cheap iron pipe.

[ndutton]

I'm confused. The wife would divorce you over a few hundred dollar manifold but not over a $2K electric drive (excluding the considerable expense of batteries)? I think a new exhaust hot section would be chump change in comparison.

We're with you here. We all have financial constraints on our boating. In my case, sometimes the projects just have to wait until the time is right.

[sastanley]

I am with Neil...by the way - I always find it better to say, "honey, ummmm, if a package shows up on the porch, it's boat parts..", then to tell her first.

Just remember that you can always part out the motor..as Dave noted manifolds only last so long, you could sell it easily when/if you converted.

I had a local sailing buddy put an electric motor into an Olson 29 (boat weighs something like 3,600 lbs. In its day, a ULDB) - he wanted to stop fussing with the outboard, and get the 3 second PHRF credit for an inboard. This also served the purpose of moving him from the slow boat in the PHRF A-3 handicap class to the fastest boat in PHRF B. It is always beneficial in handicap racing to be at the front of your pack in good stable breeze and not the slow boat in the pack trying to keep up and suck everyone's gas.

Anyway - his electric motor required 48 volts. That was 4 big batteries wired in series, the sail drive & the electric motor. He added a few hundred pounds to the displacement to remove the 30lbs. outboard, and he expected about 45 minutes of run time and had to drag around a lower unit and prop. Even the guys in the smaller boats with little outboards with integrated tanks can carry a gallon of fuel and get a few hours of run time. 45 minutes wasn't even enough to motor in and out to the race course, so he carried around 300# and had to sail out in the morning to make sure he had enough juice to get home in the afternoon when the wind died!

For whatever reason, this summer, he's back to the 5HP outboard. I am guessing the benefits did not outweigh the advantages.

All that being said, we would not chastise you for something of interest to you. I'd like to figure out a way to make solar efficient enough to keep up batteries for an electric propulsion device & give me the range I can get burning dino juice. I'd also really like to avoid carrying 18 gallons of combustible gasoline in my boat!!

[ndutton]

I always find it better to say, "honey, ummmm, if a package shows up on the porch, it's boat parts..", then to tell her first.

It's always easier to ask forgiveness than to ask for permission.

[romantic comedy]

my wife loves sailing!! I am the cheap one. She tells me to buy what we need. She even helps sanding the bottom.

[marthur]

Any spouse who will help sand the bottom is a keeper!

[Skywalker]

Sands the bottom? Really?!

Now that's love!

478,

Skywalker, 249, here. I know you are thinking electric, but this fix isn't that complicated or expensive. I just rebuilt mine. The access is to die for. If these guys new how much access we Tartan 27 owners have, they would turn green with envy.

Soak the flange bolts with 50/50 acetone/ ATF. Mine came out of my 1966 without trouble. Buy the the fitting from MMI, get some lack pipe, and be done. Then you can explore your electric option.

My friend went electric some years ago on his Morgan 27 and was very happy.

I guess it depends on use, long range plans. But I'll tell you, this forum won't bust your hump.

Chris

[Mo]

Any spouse who will help sand the bottom is a keeper!

Mine doesn't sand the bottom but she makes up for it in other areas...so I'll keep her on (she is sitting right behind me as I write this...she said I'd be a keeper if I dug for her garden and flowers....I answered "pave it".