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  #51   IP: 70.106.195.215
Old 01-11-2016, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mo View Post
Just clarify that you have water flow out the transom initially then it reduces and you get steam with reduced water flow...is that correct?
Yes, that is correct. Eventually it becomes all steam and no water.
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:00 AM
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Where are you Brian? 7F here in Halifax today.
I'm in Baltimore, MD. Unfortunately, I didn't get to the boat as planned and will have to wait on this next cold spell to pass.
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueWhale View Post
Yes, that is correct. Eventually it becomes all steam and no water.
Ok, if you initially have what appears to be normal batching just remove the T-stat and re-assemble the cover. Try it like that first. If that stops the steaming and rapid overheating there are a couple of things you can do to that would make your engine very dependable. I think that should be your first thing to do. When you get to the boat try that then text me @ nine oh two, four eight three, eight five two four. I know it can be a frustrating to make it to the boat, try a few things and "then what?...no fun heading back home to get a computer.


Also, if you have a cell phone or digital camera take some pics of your engine paying particular attention to the water hoses, pump area, T stat area, valves and exhaust etc. If you can get a video of the exhaust water output on start up and then stop the engine when it starts to steam that would help as well....but I think we will have this sorted out real soon so it might no be that pressing.
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Old 01-12-2016, 08:44 AM
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It appears water goes around the engine but not through it.
If you run a water hose into the engine at one end (but not through the water pump itself) and close off the bypass, does water come out the other end?
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Old 01-12-2016, 09:30 AM
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I might be crazy, but this sounds like a hose collapsing when it gets warm, or a t-stat failure.
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:50 AM
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or...the block is plugged and as soon as it gets warm enough to open the thermostat the water flow can't go around anymore and stops. I had something similar happen to me once.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
I might be crazy, but this sounds like a hose collapsing when it gets warm, or a t-stat failure.
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Old 01-12-2016, 07:25 PM
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Talking

Pic of block in my garage: I suggested the T stat removal and put in a by-valve when he started having issues...water pumping on start-up and then turning to decrease water and lots of steam. "my mechanic said"....anyway I just suggested. He changed the T-stat and overheated the engine first time he worked it hard. Comes back to me a couple of days later...I tell him again and he does it. Only now, engine hard to start, once started no steam, pumping fine but something is amiss...lots of blow by. I told him it has to come apart. Took a break down to see what happened and I told him he's NUMBER 3 that I know of that lost a block over a T-stat...and it was the T-stat.

So they get it apart and they rub some epoxy along the crack....holy sweet mother of ..... I just gave him an old block I had. I told him if he puts a T-stat in that block I gave him I'll take a round out of him. Rum delivery There was no need to loose that engine.
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Old 03-17-2016, 11:57 AM
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Overheating Issue - Back at it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marian Claire View Post
Bluewhale. Yes things have been confusing but I also think you have got it.
I would do this test:
1.T-stat removed,
2. Bypass hose clamped shut
3. T-stat housing off. ***
I would only use water for this test. No risk of splashing acid.This way you can actually see how much water, if any is going thru the block/head and the only way it can get to the "open housing" is thru the block. If you want to have the temp sensor removed that is fine and may be easier to see any flow depending on your access.

It will not take long to tell and will probable make a mess so be ready to shut her down. You may even have some water coming thru the bypass if the clamp is not perfect so be ready for that. I do not think you will damage anything down stream during this brief test.

The bottom line is we must have flow thru the block to cool the engine. Forget about everything else until flow thru the block is confirmed.
Dan S/V Marian Claire
Other questions/comments. I wonder if this test could be done with air? I believe BW does not have a valve in his bypass line because he has the double-action T-stat.
Ok. Seems like spring has sprung and I need to get on the water. I removed the t-stat and attached a hose to the back of the t-stat hosing. The water flow was very good! Initially, it was black but cleared up after a short while. So, does this in fact indicate that water IS flowing through the block? I am assuming that removing the t-stat replicates the state the t-stat is in when the engine temp rises to 180+?

I attempted to remove the elbow at the end of the engine but it's going to take some work to remove it. In the meantime I will replace the hose that connects to the exhaust pipe. It feels a bit weak. Perhaps it is collapsing as the engine heats up. I'm headed to the store for the hose while the PB Blaster works on the elbow. Wish me luck 😄.

Brian
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Old 03-17-2016, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWhale View Post
(1) So, does this in fact indicate that water IS flowing through the block? (2)I am assuming that removing the t-stat replicates the state the t-stat is in when the engine temp rises to 180+?
1979 C&C34
(1) Don't go by "indications" and suppositions. Some water may be going through the engine, but how much? Camp the bypass hose. Or if you have a valve in the bypass hose close it. This will force all the cooling water through the engine. If you don't have a valve on the bypass and clamping the bypass makes the engine run at a normal temp then put a valve in the bypass so you can balance the flow around the engine with the bypass vs the flow through the engine with the valve. Once you have established flow through the engine it would be a good time to do an acid flush, especially since you reporter you blew a lot of KRAP out of the cooling system. There is one way to tell for certain that whether or not you are getting enough water flow through the engine. Run the engine until the thermostat is open. Clamp the bypass. Remove the hose at the hot section and direct the water output from the manifold to the bilge or cockpit. Start the engine and rev it up a bit. Output should be like a garden hose.* Just do this briefly because without cooling water you can damage hoses and plastic mufflers.
*However some water passages may be more blocked than others resulting in uneven cooling. Most likely true in all RWC engines.
(2)No, not really. It would of course only be somewhat true if the thermostat was working properly. Even a properly functioning thermostat will somewhat restrict the flow through the engine just because it is in the way of the flow. It will act as a partial restriction. As previously suggested why not remove the thermostat, for now as least, and get rid of a variable. I'll bet you $0.10 with a valve on the bypass and no thermostat you will be happy.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 03-17-2016, 02:38 PM
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Overheating Issue - Back at it

Thanks for the reply True Grit. The by-pass was clamped off. The water flow was steady. I worked my way all the way back to the wet exhaust hose. The water flow was adequate and steady at each stage. I replaced the wet exhaust hose but it now appears that my coil has gone bad. I was planning on switching over to an electronic ignition. It seems like now is the time. I installed the new hose and reinserted the thermostat to see if in fact the issue was the hose. I can't check it until I address the ignition issue. I'm ordering the upgrade kit today - or at least a new coil . I'll be back.

Brian

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Old 03-17-2016, 05:14 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWhale View Post
I replaced the wet exhaust hose but it now appears that my coil has gone bad.
Rekofa the Blue Whale
1979 C&C34

Take the distributor cap off and turn the engine until the points are closed. Pull the center lead out of the distributor cap while the key is on, and while holding the lead near ground(the engine) flick the points open and let them snap closed. A 1/2" blue-white spark is good.
If you do get a spark let us know. It means it is not the coil that is causing the problem. ( I presume no start?)
I don't like the idea of making the change to a EI when the engine is not running on points. You will just be introducing another variable.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 03-17-2016, 05:54 PM
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Overheating Issue - Back at it

It appears that I left the ignition on and it burned out the coil. Should have it Monday or Tuesday.
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Old 03-17-2016, 06:12 PM
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Do you have a key or switch\push button ignition?
I have a key. The only time the key is in the slot is when the engine is being cranked or running. If I think I will need to start the engine again soon I leave the key on the bench near the ignition, never in the slot.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 03-31-2016, 11:52 AM
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Overheating Issue

I've made it back to the boat and replaced the coil. That fixed the ignition issue. Unfortunately, replacing the hose from the manifold to the "muffler" did not solve the issue. It appears that water is flowing through the system but I'm still overheating and getting steam. I'm going to try removing the thermostat and see what happens. I'm assuming with no thermostat water will constantly go through the engine and should continually cool the engine, yes? I'm hoping I have not somehow damaged the engine and the issue is more than a block in the cooling system. I have one more hose to change as well.

Brian
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Old 03-31-2016, 12:58 PM
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Blue-

Yes, remove the thermostat. This will open the system completely.

The question is- How *much* water is coming out of the stern? Is it a trickle or a gush? If you can hang a 5 gallon bucket from the stern, you can measure the output. You should get 3-5 gpm. So, if you fill up the bucket in a minute, or at least a little more than half full, you have adequate flow.

I just went 'round the rosemary bush with this issue myself.
I performed acid flushes and power flushes. What ended up happening, was the crud was pushed into the exhaust anti-siphon loop and formed a blockage.
However, let's not let my situation taint your troubleshooting process.

Let's start from the beginning-

A length of clear hose and a barbed coupler to join the various engine hoses with the clear hose would be helpful here. It helps you see the flow.

Remove the thermostat.

1. Disconnect the water pump output hose from the cooling jacket side plate and plumb it into a bucket. Start engine. Adequate flow? (3-5 gpm) Yes. Re-attach hose. No? Water pump fault.

2. Disconnect the T-stat housing/exhaust manifold crossover hose from the exhaust manifold and plumb it into the bucket. Start engine.
Adequate flow? Yes. Re-attach hose. No? blockage in engine block.

3. Disconnect exhaust cooling water injection hose from the aft end of the exhaust manifold, attach clear hose and plumb into bucket. (this verifies water is exiting the exhaust manifold cooling jacket) Adequate flow? Re-attach hose. No? Blockage in exhaust manifold.

4. Disconnect exhaust cooling water injection hose from the exhaust hot section water injection point (in other words, the other end of the hose) and plumb into bucket. Start engine. Adequate flow? Re-attach hose.
No? Blockage in anti-siphon loop.

If you have adequate flow (3-5 GPM) from all of these points, then your waterlift muffler is plugged or the exhaust hose from the muffler to the stern is collapsing or blocked.
You're only running the engine for 30 seconds to 1 minute at a time here, so you're not likely to do any damage. Following this procedure allows you to trace the entire water flow from input to exhaust.

By the way, you should ensure that your seawater fitting on the hull is not obstructed by growth before starting this procedure. If you've been sitting in the water, it may be blocked.

Last edited by Ajax; 03-31-2016 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 03-31-2016, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWhale View Post
. I'm assuming with no thermostat water will constantly go through the engine and should continually cool the engine, yes?
Brian
As noted the first step is to ensure that enough water is being pumped out the stern.
But water can zoom around the engine and not through the engine VIA the bypass. This will happen if (A) the two stage thermostat is not working correctly (B) The water passages in the engine are so full of crud that the water is forced to go through the bypass. If you are still running hot with the thermostat out clamp the bypass which will force all the water through the engine. You can balance water flow through the engine and around the engine with an adjustable valve on the bypass.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 03-31-2016, 06:01 PM
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Overheating Issue

I took these videos of the exhaust. Does this add any insight?

https://youtu.be/g1-MHV1grvM - Running hot

https://youtu.be/YK3AWn49JgQ - Running normal

Brian
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Old 03-31-2016, 06:29 PM
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Hi Brian,
I don't think there's enough flow there my friend. Something up there. If you'd like to give me a call 902 461 122eight. You have a flow problem so now we figure out what it is. You increased RPM and I can see the exhaust smoke and hear your RPM...your discharge rate didn't increase very much, if at all. You know, sometimes we can tangle with things and small variances in materials or parts can make a difference, my first thoughts on this is actually T-stat but I thought it was taken out. No need to clamp anything off...just have it out for now and pick up the rpms and see what it does. If the discharge rate increases in volume ...good for now...touch your fingers on the head with the engine rpms up and it should be warm with the T-stat out...should be able to hold your fingers there with no discomfort. Do that and let me know how it did...did the discharge rate increase, was the head warm and not hot. I have other things in the back of my mind and this doesn't mean all is well...but try that first.
[YOUTUBE]aoihuq_5sW0[/YOUTUBE] This is mine second start up for year 2013. That's pretty close to idle and if I throttle up she will drive water back 3 feet. The boat is in gear here to have a look for shaft wobble etc. The blue smoke is because I put motor oil in my top end every lay-up and it takes about 20 minutes to clear in spring.


Mo
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Last edited by Mo; 04-01-2016 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 04-23-2016, 04:48 PM
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Overheating Issue

Hello Everyone,

I've finally had time to get back to the boat and this overheating issue. I worked through all of the steps up to #3. It appears that the clog is in the exhaust manifold. My next step is to remove the two elbows and clear out any gunk that may be there. Hopefully, that will take care of my overheating issue. Fingers crossed.

Brian

3. Disconnect exhaust cooling water injection hose from the aft end of the exhaust manifold, attach clear hose and plumb into bucket. (this verifies water is exiting the exhaust manifold cooling jacket) Adequate flow? Re-attach hose. No? Blockage in exhaust manifold.
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Old 04-23-2016, 05:49 PM
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If you take the manifold off, you can get a radiator shop to boil it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWhale View Post
Hello Everyone,

I've finally had time to get back to the boat and this overheating issue. I worked through all of the steps up to #3. It appears that the clog is in the exhaust manifold. My next step is to remove the two elbows and clear out any gunk that may be there. Hopefully, that will take care of my overheating issue. Fingers crossed.

Brian

3. Disconnect exhaust cooling water injection hose from the aft end of the exhaust manifold, attach clear hose and plumb into bucket. (this verifies water is exiting the exhaust manifold cooling jacket) Adequate flow? Re-attach hose. No? Blockage in exhaust manifold.
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Old 04-23-2016, 07:42 PM
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Overheating Issue

Well, got both elbows off with the help of a little PB Blaster. The rear was pretty gunked up. I cleaned out both. I attached a hose to the rear elbow and ran the engine for about 50 seconds. I got almost five gallons! Problem solved right? No! Reattached everything, still with the thermostat out and she still darted to steam up. I doubt if the anti siphon hose is the issue because I just replaced it. It's either the muffler or the hose to the through hull. I know I'm almost there.

Brian
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Old 04-23-2016, 09:15 PM
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Blue Whale, Ajax had this problem recently..I think his issue was the mixing elbow aft of the hot section. All these need to be checked to make sure they are clear. Everything flows downstream, so each and every hose/hardware junction can create a blockage.

During testing, and if you are on the hard, I'd eliminate the siphon break and go directly from the manifold to the exhaust connection..it is not needed during troubleshooting on the hard with the boat stationary. One less thing to catch debris!
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Old 04-24-2016, 09:33 AM
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Blue,

You didn't mention if you had clamped-off the bypass hose in step 3. If you didn't, you could have great flow (through the bypass) but still be overheating due to a clogged block.
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Old 04-27-2016, 12:25 AM
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Overheating Issue

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Well, got both elbows off with the help of a little PB Blaster. The rear was pretty gunked up. I cleaned out both. I attached a hose to the rear elbow and ran the engine for about 50 seconds. I got almost five gallons! Problem solved right? No! Reattached everything, still with the thermostat out and she still darted to steam up. I doubt if the anti siphon hose is the issue because I just replaced it. It's either the muffler or the hose to the through hull. I know I'm almost there.

Brian
Well, it's the exhaust hose. I clamped off the bypass and still got good flow. I disconnected the exhaust hose from the muffler and attached a hose to it. I got good flow, about 4 - 5 gallons/minute. So, everything is good to the muffler. As soon as I put my finger in the exhaust hose I could feel a huge bubble. Looked inside and there it was. Now I need about 16 feet of 1 1/2 in wet exhaust hose. Then I have to contort my body to crawl into the tiny space in the hull to replace the old one. Any pointers? I plan to do this with the boat in the water.

Brian
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Old 04-27-2016, 12:56 AM
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When I did my exhaust hose replacement it was impossible to reach the barb at the distal or outboard end of the exhaust where it went through the transom. I smeared the inside of the new tube with TFP paste grabbed the proximal end and twisted it round and round* till it went over the barb, slid the clamps down the tube and was able to tighten them with a 1\4" socket. Hope this helps.

TRUE GRIT

* The twisting works because the hose is rigid
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