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Old 02-27-2017, 09:03 AM
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First Overhaul (so far)

Greetings Afourians!
I have been a long time subscriber and you all have helped on countless occasions with various issues to great success. I am now moving into uncharted waters... Here is the story:
I have a 1980 Catalina 30 Hull #1776, Freedom. She has a well maintained but never overhauled A4. My plan is to re-power with a museum quality restored A4.

A couple of years ago, my slip neighbor with a 70s era Pearson 28 decided to repower with an outboard after his A4 "made a fantastic clanking noise". I was able to purchase this A4 for $400, with all accessories...a candidate for overhaul. It now sits on a dolly in my garage.

About a year ago another friend purchased a 1975 Pearson 30 that had taken on considerable water in the slip. When he purchased the boat, the A4 was removed and had an outboard mounted astern. He repowered with electric (very nice solution). But, I was able to trade conversation and some rum for the A4, which sat covered outside for a few years before I claimed it.

The plan: I want to end up with 2 museum quality restored A4s out of this project. One to re-power Freedom and another to keep on the shelf for a yet to be determined purpose.

The work begins now.
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Old 02-27-2017, 12:32 PM
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Mark Good luck!

Take some pics and post them up as you progress. Let's hope that the spectacular noise is a bad rod bearing that has not scored the crankshaft.

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Old 02-27-2017, 02:51 PM
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The Free A4

OK folks here we go...
The “Free” A4
The first step in this evolution is to dig into the “free” motor. The plan is to completely disassemble the unit and determine what can be salvaged and used to create a completely refurbished A4.
Exhaust Manifold:
When the boat from which this motor was salvaged was re-claimed, the boat had been partially submerged in the slip. In looking at the motor, it does not look like water got into the crank case or pan, but as I was told, the motor was found with the exhaust manifold removed and some head studs removed. Evidence that there may have been an issue with the motor and someone was attempting repair with the motor in the boat.
When I removed the exhaust manifold, I found one of the manifold studs in a strange condition. It looks like the bolt was frozen and the “mechanic” muscled it off, taking with it a chunk out of the block. Here are the photos.

Questions on this: Assuming that I can get the stud out of the manifold, can a machine shop effect a suitable repair to the block where the stud is secured? Has anyone seen this before? Is this from some previous repair? Could it be a result of damage from extreme overheating? Or as a result of extreme corrosion from rust…there was plenty of that!
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Last edited by MarkH; 02-27-2017 at 02:53 PM. Reason: Added text
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Old 02-27-2017, 07:20 PM
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Ok, That's a new one to me.(that's not saying much)
Could be it got over-torqued. I think really only a good machine shop can answer your question as they will be the ones doing the work. I looks beyond a heli-coil job and if you could weld or braze up that hole , you'd already know the answer to your question.

Also, don't rule out freeze cracking if that stud hole goes into water. Come to think, that's now my best guess. Have the entire block magnafluxed.

Anything can be repaired, it's just, how much are you willing to spend verses new.

Cheers,

Russ
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Old 02-27-2017, 08:32 PM
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Congratulations on your endeavor Mark!

I am about two weeks ahead of you, having just started my first A4 rebuild. I had the disadvantage of my engine being disassembled already and stuffed into recycle bins. These guys have been fantastic at answering questions and assisting with my lack of A4 experience. I have all of the major parts back together, with the last things either being ordered tonight. I'm hoping to turn the key in two or three weeks.

Enjoy, relax, and prepare to learn new things!

Steve
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:33 PM
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Manifold update

Thanks Lat64,
I have since ground down the damaged side of the manifold flush with the mating surface and have a clean perimeter of the stud, now flush with the mating surface. Not in a hurry to get that manifold restored, so I will work on it in down time from other stuff. Probably will squirt the stud with PB daily and tap-tap-tap for a while before sicking the stud remover on it.

Now waiting on my spring compressor to come in the mail.
Will post head removal pics next...that was fun. Just like everyone said it would be...
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:41 PM
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Head Removal

All the stories about removing an A4 head were to me just that…stories, until I did the job myself. I first attempted to remove the studs first. After using my stud removal tool on a few of these with some success and a few failures. I went to the tap, tap, tap, nudge, nudge process. I used large washers to maintain any progress under the head made as I moved along. And eventually… I was able to remove the head.

Notes: I purchased a stud remover from my local auto parts house (NAPA). It was about $35 and it works like the snap-on one… it chucks-up the stud like a drill and allows it to be backed-out. No luck with this really until after the head was removed, then they came out easily. Also, I modified a sacrificial screwdriver, grinding it down to a very gradual slope and rounding the end to be used to help separate the head. This worked great. However, the best tool used in this effort was a gasket scraper, pictured here. Wow, this thing is fantastic. Biggest issue was the remaining thermostat stud. It was the final resistance to ultimate removal of the head.
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:46 PM
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Head Removal II

Here is what I found when the head came off… Most of the gunk is from BP Blaster and the chunks are gasket material. On the left is the block right after the head was removed. Notice the broken valve. On the right is the head after about 30 minutes of clean up with a wire brush.


Note: The broken exhaust valve is likely the reason that the motor was not working previously and led to the desire to repair the motor on the boat, prior to its removal. I believe this to have happened prior to my pounding and prying on the head because the valve seat looks like a squirrel chewed on it. This probably from the valve slamming around in its seat with the engine running. More on this later in my next post on the water jacket.
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:49 PM
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Broken Valve

Just for kicks, here is a close up of the #1 exhaust valve seat.
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Last edited by MarkH; 03-03-2017 at 12:23 PM. Reason: changed intake to exhaust
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Old 02-27-2017, 10:07 PM
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Water Jacket Cover Plate

Looking at the water jacket plate, there was some major pitting on the surface. Before removing, I picked at it a bit with a screwdriver and it opened up like a sink hole. When I removed the water jacket plate, I found a real surprise. The jacket was completely filled with rust. The rust was completely flush with the plate opening. I was able to clean out this pretty well, will let a machine shop work on it during magna-flux and clean up.

Questions: Well, I have another good cover plate, no issue there. Looks like I will need the Moyer Stud fix (x4) if I plan to use this block. Wondering how best to remove the broken studs…

Note: The inspection of the water jacket and status – completely filled with rust. Seems at this point to be a contributing factor to the broken valve that I found when I removed the head. It makes sense that the motor would have run extremely hot, with little or no water circulation. Overheating is likely what led to the broken valve (at least at this point). I will know more when I get to the bottom end.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:27 PM
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Broken Valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkH View Post
Note: The broken exhaust valve is likely the reason that the motor was not working previously and led to the desire to repair the motor on the boat, prior to its removal. I believe this to have happened prior to my pounding and prying on the head because the valve seat looks like a squirrel chewed on it. This probably from the valve slamming around in its seat with the engine running. More on this later in my next post on the water jacket.
OK, after spending some time studying the top of the head over lunch while I wait for my valve spring tool to arrive, I have decided that it is very possible, in fact likely that I did break that exhaust valve when removing the head... It is #1 that is broken and it was definitely in the open position. So, it remains a possibility and I will own it.
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Old 02-28-2017, 09:37 PM
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Mark,
My opinion is that engine ran for a while with the bad valve - that seat is really chewed up. BTW, that valve is an exhaust valve - the bigger ones are intake. But not to despair - a machine shop should be able to restore that seat. Might mean installing an insert, but that's not a big deal. Last block I had done, all 4 exhaust seats needed inserts - no extra charge from the shop. They just did it.
I recommend the stainless side plate from our host - won't corrode and it's pretty. Definitely do the studs for the side plate (no more leaks in that area). I did brass studs and stainless nuts which are OK for a glycol cooled engine. If you're raw water, go for stainless studs and brass nuts.

Last edited by Al Schober; 02-28-2017 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:04 AM
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I had the machine shop remove the broken studs when I rebuilt my A4.
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:03 AM
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I agree with Al...I don't think you need the stud repair, just the stud kit... The block side looks great, and the motor seems to be cleaning up pretty well.

I did the opposite of Al (SS studs and brass washers & nuts), but my engine was RWC at the time I did that. The forum discussion at the time was to allow the nuts/washers to be almost like sacrificial anodes to keep the block/studs/sideplate from degrading any further in a RWC'd environment. If the nuts corroded they should crumble off and be easily replaced. Now it is FWC, but the side plate is working just fine in that configuration. I also added a zinc in the block at the forward 1/8" NPT drain hole, which may have helped. For your motor, I'd do SS everything.

One more note while we are here..Pay special attention to the lower inside aft side plate hole (lined up with cyl #3)..in stock configuration this hole takes the entire load of the alternator belt and (in my case) elongated the hole. The P.O. installed an oversized bolt to 'fix' the problem..which reduces gasket mating surfaces, and eventual failure of the block at that hole...then you are getting into stud repair kits. I highly recommend the upgraded bracket (& maybe even the tensioner kit) from MMI when you are re-assembling. The new bracket spreads the load across the plate and uses two bolt holes for support. This is presently being discussed in another active thread.
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Old 03-03-2017, 12:34 PM
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Valve Removal

Valve Removal (completed 3/2/17)
OK, I received the valve spring compressor tool! This was pretty straight forward and is covered very well in Don’s Overhaul Manual. My issue is that the engine will not turn at this point, so getting the valves out of #1 and #3 was a challenge, given their “frozen” position. Overall, the project went pretty smoothly. The #1 exhaust valve (broken) was the only one that took lots of negotiation to get out.
Pretty simple steps illustrated below:
1. Compress the spring – using the compression tool, this is pretty easy. I put one end on the spring seat and one end on the valve. This seemed to work best.
2. Remove the keepers – removed some with my fingers, some had to be jiggled around to get out, on those valves that were in the open position.
3. Remove the valve – some took negotiation, others pulled right out.
4. Remove the valve spring – I used a large screw driver and just slipped each spring out.
5. Organize! – I took a scrap piece of cardboard and drew a grid to lay out everything. I will clean and bag these parts for identification and later use.
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Last edited by MarkH; 03-03-2017 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Image issue
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Old 03-03-2017, 02:39 PM
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Cam Shaft Removal

Here we are. Oil pan is removed and the block is on its face on a towel on the bench. Don says the next step is to remove the cam shaft by first "removing the 7/16 bolts behind the big gear on the flywheel end." That will be a problem because this baby is frozen solid. So, no movie-movie of the crank to rotate the gear so that I can get to the bolts.

Time to ask a question: What is my next step? Do I remove the crank shaft to allow me to turn the cam gear so that I can then remove the cam shaft. Is there some tribal law that I will break or unintended consequence for the approach? ...and go.
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Old 03-03-2017, 02:42 PM
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Cam Shaft Removal

One more thing...
I want to make sure that I can e-assemble this once I am done. How am I going to make sure the cam is in the right position relative to the crank on re-assembly. I know that is a rookie question, but I have to ask. If its in Don's bible, I might not have read that far...

Last edited by MarkH; 03-03-2017 at 02:50 PM. Reason: text
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:08 PM
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Crank Removal

Answer: Yes, remove the Crank first. No problems...
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:13 PM
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Piston Removal

This is a bit uncharted for me, but I think I can make this work. I removed the crank bearing studs on each end... no problem, then turned the block back over and placed it on a couple of 2x’s to keep the piston rods off the bench. Then with a large wooden dowel and hammer I negotiated with the easiest one…#1. Just a few taps and it was free. The others may take some soaking and tapping. Any guidance on this is appreciated. I know enough to tap and not bang... being mindful of the pistons.
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Last edited by MarkH; 03-03-2017 at 06:20 PM. Reason: text edit
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:35 PM
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When everything is cleaned up, you'll see the timing marks on the main crank and cam gears. The other stuff doesn't matter as long as they mate up.
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Old 03-04-2017, 04:05 PM
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Thumbs up

A lot of people on the internet have found a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone to be an excellent penetrating oil..I might mix up a small batch and let it soak into the piston rings and see if they'll come loose...there seems to be no reason to unnecessarily score the cylinder walls at this stage.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:03 PM
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Mark,
You've got some serious pitting on the deck of the block, which will need some grinding. Have the shop try to keep track of how much they grind off - you may need a third head gasket! The original head gaskets were a copper/asbestos sandwich, which compressed to about 1/16". The current crop of gaskets are about 1/32", hence two needed to limit compression to original. If your shop grinds off .020 or more, you may need 3 gaskets - I think I'd go with two gaskets and a shim plate.
Cooling passages look good. Often those passages outboard of the valves get limed up.
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Old 03-09-2017, 10:28 AM
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Pision Removal Complete 3/6/17

Well, here is how all this went. After removing #1, the other three pistons were not going to be so easy. At the advice of a gear-head friend, I turned-over the block and filled the cylinders to just above each piston with transmission oil. I scrubbed a bit with a small wire brush around inside the bottom of each piston to loosen any corrosion that might keep the oil from leeching into the cylinder around each piston. I let this set up overnight. I came back and extracted the tranny oil with a large syringe, turned over the head and tapped out each piston with a wooden dowel. Not too difficult after all.
Here is the result:
The cylinders look to have some corrosion (surface) but no visible cracks or holes. The pistons look pretty bad, but can likely be cleaned up. Please comment if you believe otherwise. The head has some work to be done: magna flux, water jacket stud extraction, one bolt extraction on the rear where the coil mounts. If it passes the magna flux, then I am on to refurbishing the block and will build this out to completion. I will of course need a #1 exhaust valve, will replace all bearings and freeze plugs and then breathe new life into this 43 year old work horse.
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Old 03-09-2017, 10:28 AM
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To the Machine Shop

Next stop is the machine shop. Any pointers to dealing with these guys would be great, I am basically going in with only this job under my belt. I think the following is a complete list of what I need done:
1. Crank shaft polishing
2. Cam shaft polishing
3. Tappet polishing
4. Piston polishing
5. Valve grinding and re-seat
6. Head ground (if necessary)
7. Block ground
8. Cylinders honed
9. Remove broken studs (8) total
10. Repair (weld and re-tap) one exhaust stud hole on the block
11. Sand blast and final clean up
12. New valve
13. New bearings

Let me know what I left out…
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Old 03-09-2017, 03:58 PM
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If the cylinders have any corrosion, they will likely need more than just honing. The A4 I rebuilt had what I thought was just "surface corrosion" in one cylinder - that cylinder needed to be bored +.020. I had all four cylinder bored so that they matched and had to buy 4 new +.020 pistons.
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