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  #1   IP: 24.184.218.178
Old 08-01-2012, 09:53 PM
grant.mckenzie grant.mckenzie is offline
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Smokey & oily

Hi,

lots of posts about causes and potential fixes for steam in the exhaust but I'm having trouble finding help on what to do with smoke and oil discharge from the exhaust.

1972 Irwin, raw water cooled late model atomic 4. Run for the last 5 years since I bought her. After commissioning this year, there is a large amount of smoke coming out of the exhaust ( hangs around for several boat lengths ) plus an oily discharge in the water.

I've followed the manual instructions for exhaust issues, but problem remains:

1. with raw water thru-hull closed, turned over engine with plugs out - no steam or water is ejected from the plug holes.

2. checked cylinder compression - each cylinder between 90-110.

3. Squirted mystery oil thru the plug holes

4. changed the oil twice.

My guess is that that oil is making it's way into the cooling system - any tips on how to track that down?

Best,
Grant.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:22 PM
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hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
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I think it is more likely that the oil is getting past the rings and/or valve guides, thence to the combustion chamber where burning is not 100%, thence to the exhaust.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:06 AM
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Smoke is from burned oil. My guess is the same as the above post.

What do your plugs look like. One cylinder may be the problem, or all of them. My atomic four smokes pretty good too. I just figure that it is the rings, and there is nothing to do about it, besides a rebuild.

Do you get a lot of blow by coming out the oil filler? How much oil are you using? I guess you can try to free up the rings, if they are stuck, with a MMI treatment. I always add some MMI to the fuel. I am guessing that it will not help.
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:37 AM
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There are only two ways the unburned junk can get into the exhaust system and both lead thru the exhaust valve. Bad rings will allow blowby into the crankcase and it will find it's way to the oil filler tube and any other open air "leak" for that matter, including the flywheel housing. If this is the case, suspect rings first. If this is not the case, suspect valve guides. If the problem is not severe you could install a pcv valve to mitigate the effects, not the problem, until you are ready to take the engine down.
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:28 PM
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So it started right after the winter lay up. Are you getting a lot of water flow from the exhaust? That means, is the impeller young, and working well?
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:22 PM
grant.mckenzie grant.mckenzie is offline
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Thanks all - have run for several hours after MMO treatment and no better. Tried removing the valve cover plate and manifold and giving valves etc. a liberal MMO-ing but to no avail. I guess the valve guides and rings need to be looked at in that order.

Raw water impeller was fine.
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:47 PM
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Smile just pondering

Not really sure what is being described as smoke. Blue, white and or smell associated with it. Although the previous comments are certainly / more likely the case, I would want to make sure all other causes or combinations are ruled out. Hate to break down an engine that doesn't need it...so here's my thoughts of an approach to try and figure it out.

1 remove the plugs noting which came from which cylinder...note if one is blacker or has more carbon than the others...or if they all look the same. A good idea to take a pic of them at this point...then clean (take another pic of them cleaned) and re-install.
2 start engine and allow to run and warm up
3 have a look at the temp guage and see if temp fluctuates with t-stat opening and closing (if you have one)...rule out T stat failure as well.
4 smell the exhaust and see if you can tell if the smoke is oil, rich unburned fuel, or steam.
5 if you have any doubt that it might be running rich, back off the mixture screw 1/2 then see if the oil/sheen on the water changes.
6 after about half an hour or so of running, remove the plugs and inspect. Take another pic as well (so this is your 3rd pic). The pics at this point might give you more info because you will have before and after shots.

The reason I posted this is because I had a friend with a sticking T-stat and mixture too rich....he though he was burning oil and it took 20 minutes to correct the situation. His engine does burn a bit of oil, however, his oil pressure is excellent, it sounds good with no knocks etc...so why haul it apart at this point. He keeps an eye on the oil and tops it up as required...it looked allot worse with the t-stat sticking and mixture too rich.
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Last edited by Mo; 08-20-2012 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:32 PM
grant.mckenzie grant.mckenzie is offline
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Thanks Maurice - I'll give this a try. The smoke is white and smells of oil and does not dissipate for several boat lengths. There is oil in the exhaust water as well.
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:00 PM
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I made points a while back suggesting Diesel fuel got in the gas. Jus' sayin!

Smell the fuel?

Russ
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:04 PM
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Russ, good point..have you put enough hours on the motor to have needed to add fuel yet? An outboard tank with fresh fuel from another source would easily eliminate that scenario.
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Old 08-21-2012, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lat 64 View Post
I made points a while back suggesting Diesel fuel got in the gas. Jus' sayin!

Smell the fuel?

Russ
Yet another reason why I don't patronize the marina fuel dock.
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Last edited by ndutton; 08-21-2012 at 02:26 PM.
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  #12   IP: 24.184.218.178
Old 08-22-2012, 07:29 PM
grant.mckenzie grant.mckenzie is offline
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Had enough time yesterday to take a quick look at the thermostat ( Mo's advice to try to avoid an engine breakdown struck a chord! ) as I had never looked at that before. Lo and behold, the thermostat was not actually installed - I always wondered why there was a "spare" on the boat. Photos attached. Managed to put my back out removing the batteries so will not be posting updates for a while :-(

Presumably I should reinstall the thermostat after giving it a good clean and testing and monitor the temp. gauge?

Thanks for all the help for a newbie. I must admit that I'm starting to like getting my hands dirty and learning more about the engine.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:41 PM
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Smile nope

OK, so the T-stat wasn't the problem. Suggest you put it back without one and continue trouble shooting. I would put a by-valve in and leave the T-stat out permanently. You would then add a set of the hotter running plugs, adjust and lean out the carb just right and you got yourself a beast you can push when you have to.

Dave Neptune just came up with a new way of diverting water without using a T-stat as well. It is under: but that all for later when we sort out this smoke.

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6699

Russ mentioned possibility of diesel fuel....I remember a guy had that happen a while back. Picks of the plugs may tell us allot when you get around to that.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:15 PM
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That's one of the prized Holley t-stats. Hang on to that! You can throw that t-stat in a glass of vinegar to dissolve the crud buildup, then test it on the stove as you heat up a pan of water. You should see it popping up as it gets hotter. Boiling it isn't necessary, and a thermometer can be useful to judge what temp it starts to open and also when it is fully open. RWC ~140 degrees starts to open. The T-stat opens inside the housing you took off and hopefully the bypassing cylinder you see inside is intact. If its rotted away, the water may not be bypassing like it should.

Suggest skipping the experiments and going straight to FWC with the Indigo remote T-stat. An acid flush and a side plate clean out wouldn't hurt either, I bet. I messed around with these half measures for a long time and wish I had just gone all in at the start. Would have been cheaper and worked better. Good luck and ask all the questions you like

Last edited by msauntry; 08-22-2012 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:46 PM
grant.mckenzie grant.mckenzie is offline
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Problem resolved

Thanks for all your help - the issue was resolved by two things:

1. making the idle mix leaner
2. running from a fresh gas supply

After this the raw water leaving the exhaust had no discoloration and the was reduced to a barely noticeable level.
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