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Old 12-21-2021, 11:40 PM
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Battery replacement time

Hello all.

I am starting to look to replace the 4 year old batts on my boat.. Both are marine starting gp 24 batts and I have never liked how the house batt loses it's power when out sailing (powering a tablet, depth finder, autohelm) 6 to 8 hours

So I am thinking: a gp24 marine starting for engine and a gp27 marine deep cycle for the house.

Both from NAPA and made by East Penn.

Thoughts, contentions, opinions?
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Old 12-22-2021, 06:52 AM
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See if you can fit a group 31 and the 24.
Another trick if you have room is to get an 8D battery case. That will hold 3 group 24s and you can use two for house and one for start.
BTW - make sure the house battery is a deep cycle battery, thin plate starting batteries die quickly when cycled.

Last edited by joe_db; 12-22-2021 at 06:54 AM.
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Old 12-22-2021, 08:53 AM
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Bill, batteries are a serious consideration. I used a deep cycle battery on both sides, house and start. The A-4 does not require a great deal of cranking amps so really no need. I did use a deep cycle U-2 on the start side just to try it out and not a single issue in about 6 months of use then I put the U-2 back in my hi-po buggie. I have always used 2 golf cart grp 8's for the house.

Put as much power on the house side as will fit and consider even going smaller with the start VIA a U-2. I used them in my 1940 cc 10:1 VW engine and on my 60Hp Yamaha in my Calibogie skiff. They work quite well.

Another consideration is AMG, not that they really have any more power. What they do have is more capacity to use. IE a L/A battery is safe to discharge to about 50% and the AMG can go to about 30% safely which is a lot more power to use when limited to size. They are more expensive but not that much when you consider the usable power.

I also used a deep cycle AMG a grp size smaller battery (don't remember the #) than the 24 and a bit bigger than the U-2 for my start battery in my Bene with a 56 Hp Yanmar, spun it nicely and I could fit it in a much smaller space around the engine.

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Last edited by Dave Neptune; 12-22-2021 at 08:57 AM. Reason: more info
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Old 12-22-2021, 09:56 AM
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My start battery is a U1. They are about 250 amps cranking and about 30 AH. The A4 draws about 125 amps starting, the U1 is fine most of the time for that. If the engine has issues (see choke geometry thread) I can always start off the house.
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Old 12-22-2021, 10:10 AM
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FYI - East-Penn Deka sells group 31 AGMs through Sam's Club with a goofy label. They are identical to West Marine AGMs for half the price
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Old 12-22-2021, 04:22 PM
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Go as big as you can. I have 2 Gr29's as my house bank. I think the 29 & 31 are the same footprint, but I didn't have enough height for the 31s.

Joe, I had a friend with the same experience thru one of the "Batteries & Bulbs" places with his big 8Ds in his powerboat. What ever brand they were selling was the same battery and even built on the same line as the WM brand, they just peel off down the line in different directions with a different label, but 1/2 the price.
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Old 12-23-2021, 09:55 PM
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My favorite is Optima Blue Top Marine D34 [I think]. These are multi purpose AGM, lighter weight than deep cycle LA's and perform very well. I have two identical and switch back and forth regardless of needs. One was installed May 2008 and the other May 2018. Off season I store them in a basement and periodicaly put a low amp maintainer on them [ it pulses and supposedly disulfates them somewhat?]. They are more $'s but you can find them on line for less since they can be used and shipped in any position. Check them out.
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Old 12-24-2021, 07:05 PM
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Thanks fellas. I don't understand some of the jargon, eg. U-2

But let me ask a couple of questions:

1. What about the batteries I described in my original post?

2. the pic shows the charger I have now. Will that charge AGMs?

Thank you and Merry Christmas
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Old 12-25-2021, 09:01 AM
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Merry Christmas Bill. No AGM's do require a bit more voltage for proper charging. If money is a big factor go for L/A and stick with "deep cycles" on both sides.

The U batteries are built for lawn equipment and small tractors and such. I like them for starting small engines as they can usually be placed closer to small engines in small spaces. That leaves the bigger space for the "house set" which does not need to be close. Just remember the batteries do not need to be where the factory installed them. I have even used them on "hot rods" with small blocks and big power :rolleyes!

I had an E-27 #174 which was an O/B model. I used the engine box as a pantry and moved the batteries from under the bunk to the forward cabin under the bunk next to the water tank. I found that "Easy" squatted in the stern and the weight up front helped to steady the bow .

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Old 12-25-2021, 10:45 AM
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Merry Christmas to you too Dave, Bill and all forum members.

As Dave said, AGM's or other modern chemistry batts require different charging voltages and charging profiles than conventional lead acid batts for them to perform to their specs and after all, performance is the prime directive. Having a battery that fits in a space but does not perform is little more than expensive trim weight. Voice of experience here.

You'll change your shore charger to suit the AGM's but what about the engine alternator regulator? You should be changing that too to provide the higher voltage needed to charge the new batts. Then, what happens to your electronic ignition system current maximum of 4 amps?

Example:
Let's say your existing ignition system has an input voltage of 14.2 volts and 3.6Ω resistance, 3.9 amps system current. Then you make the change to AGM's with an AGM profile regulator. Now your charging voltage in absorption is 14.8 volts and your system current is 4.1 amps and supplemental resistance in the ignition circuit is indicated.

The point is do not forget your ignition system will be subjected to the new charging voltage too so don't overlook it.
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Old 12-25-2021, 02:52 PM
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Thank you for that info! Happy Everything!
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Old 12-26-2021, 10:11 AM
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Very useful info from East-Penn Deka.
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Old 12-28-2021, 10:27 PM
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I am going with what Joe wrote: See if you can fit a group 31 and the 24.
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Old 01-06-2022, 11:28 PM
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With these batteries installed, the 24 charges half a volt higher than the 31 with the Marinco charger. Is everything OK?
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Old 01-07-2022, 09:32 AM
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Bigger battery bigger draw, so less of a reading until full. Check the rest and "trickle" voltage when fully charged they should be very close.

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Old 01-07-2022, 10:53 PM
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alco, Like Dave mentioned, it may depend on where you are reading the voltage, and how they are being charged (simultaneously?) with the same charger, etc. I have a 'splitter' on my boat, the Gr24 starter is always up quicker than the 2 battery parallel wired Gr29 battery house bank.
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Old 01-08-2022, 07:45 PM
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Thank you. Answers:
I am reading the V at the batteries.
The one charger is used for both batts.
They are within half a volt.

I went sailing on house only a couple of days ago, with the normal suite of electronic draw on, and upon return the V in the house was hardly noticeable on an analog meter. I count that a very good. Whereas the 3 ur old starter type batt. I used to have would have a noticeable discharge of a couple of V.
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Old 01-20-2022, 07:59 AM
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Follow up:

The big battery (31) charges nearly the same as the smaller (24) one, The main reason for the differing voltages was the charging wire had disconnected at a fuse holder from the big batt.
I love simple solutions.

On another note: someone mentioned blue teeth battery monitor. Got 2 and, I don't know if it is necessary, but it's very cool keeping a close eye on batt. condition.
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Old 04-18-2022, 06:31 PM
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Ok so I got the blue tooth battery monitors. The readings had been smooth line except when coming off shore power/starting engine/charging from alternator- you know a spike in draw or charging.

Then today I went out to the boat for a nap and take a look at the reading from the batt monitors. What is up with this? Is my charger unhappy? Trying to die possibly?
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Old 04-22-2022, 06:29 PM
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Unhappy

Nothing? Neil? Dave? Joe?
Thank you,
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Old 04-22-2022, 06:29 PM
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Unhappy

Nothing? Neil? Dave? Joe?
Thank you,

Bill McLean
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Old 04-22-2022, 07:08 PM
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I don't have a battery monitor and no experience with a battery monitor so I have no business commenting on it. That's the problem with so many internet forums, big shot blowhards pontificating when they have no idea what they're talking about.

I hope you get your question answered and I have every confidence if it happens on this forum the answer will be correct and helpful.
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Old 04-22-2022, 08:38 PM
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I just used volt and amp meters. They gave me the info I wanted and I was not interested in counting amps.

What do the instructions indicate?

I like the KISS rule.

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Old 04-23-2022, 09:40 AM
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Without knowing the resolution of the graph and sampling intervals I am not really sure I know what is going on. If the battery charger is the source of that I would say it was going nuts or it has some weird desulphation mode that kicked off.
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Old 04-23-2022, 02:11 PM
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It appears to be pulsing up to ~14.4 V and then drifting back to ~ 13.1 V. Could this be how it implements Float mode? Normal float voltage is between 13.2 and 13.8, with 13.5 being commonly used. Or maybe it's probing to see when to go back into Bulk or Absorption mode? Or maybe the charger's bad? All speculation with no evidence or experience to back it up. My "gut feel" is that this is float mode but don't take that as gospel!
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