New to me, Oasis, 1974 Peason 30, A4 serial no.191902

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  • TimBSmith
    Afourian MVP
    • Aug 2020
    • 162

    New to me, Oasis, 1974 Peason 30, A4 serial no.191902

    Will try to keep this first post manageable. My gratitude to everyone on this forum for all of the help you have given and would never know.

    On August 5th I bought Oasis after making offers on several other P30's. She was 2 years on the hard and engine had not run during that time.

    Now time I start paying content rent here. I have been living in the basement of this forum for months. I used the Atomic 4 information to evaluate other boats pre-offer and now I am applying and learning on the fly for my good old boat.

    I have sailed a modest amount, I have never owned a sailboat much less an Atomic 4 aux powered sailboat.

    I have spent the past 4 weeks crammed into the starboard foot locker, twisted beneath the sink, and beath the cockpit. The one piece of equipment that Moyer might consider adding to its inventory is some sort of branded knee pads. By far the best purchase I have made this far.

    My boat and its A4 were a blank slate. Death, divorce, and estate problems brought her too me in apparently good shape, however, having a blank maintenance history.

    I have investigated all engine subsystems to become more competent as a skipper, to keep me and my family safe, and for the pleasure of learning.

    Today marked an awesome culmination day and Sunday we will attempt to start the engine for the first time on the hard.

    Electrical system. Batteries were gone when I bought her. Found a sail locker etching of battery bank wiring that at one time applied to her. Traced and tested. Have now verified power and have functional blower, starter, fuel pump, ignition through spark plugs. Set up remote starter(funny story about wiring error another post). There literally was not a single segment of this system that was not helped by the forum. Pleasant surprises when determined that prior owner had already upgraded to electronic ignition. (Of course I had already devoured every article I could on point driven ignition for the A4.

    Fuel and combustion system. Drained the old fuel, which did not look very old. Replaced filter, will tell you the epic story of my time in Racor fuel filter bowl and check bolt hell. The fuel from the old filter was much more varnishy that the tank fuel. The tank fuel I filtered had mainly old bug parts in it. Explored the nuances of thread sealant more than I care to admit. Fuel pump checked out. Nice surprise that the carburetor had been upgraded with PCV valve upgrade. Oil pressure test for fuel pump worked and successfully jumped for testing psi. Did the MMO treatment twice. Once before I could crank than after I could crank with remote starter. Soaked and cleared flame arrestor, kept pig rag slices in the open choke throat and carb bowl to limit pooling of MMO. COLD tested compression for first time yesterday with open choke and open throttle. Cylinder 1=100psi 2=100psi 3=100psi 4=105psi. Acquainted self with throttle adjustments though intimidated by prospect of slow or fast idle adjust...will cross bridges needing crossing.

    Cooling system. Raw water...at first thought fresh water but mistook the muffler for heat exchanger with my newbie eyes. A drain "T" had been installed and I still have not been able to remove the basket filter top which is clear. Bought impeller and wrong o ring(whoops) from Moyer. Changed impeller and discovered that the water pump is upgraded and has thumb screws. Old impeller looked great, still changed. I could not get all paddles of new impeller pointing counter clockwise. I did scuff one old impeller paddle joint slightly. Need to buy removal tool-which is slick. I used wired up alligator clips. Access to pump is medieval. I did not remove drain screws or plate beside bypass valve. I did not yet remove and test thermostat. Plate scaling is minimal, mainly around middle bolt and bottom frame bolt that holds alternator mounting bracket. Some scaling on engine base, no intrusion into critical components. Engine cleanup, priming and painting this winter. Have wire brushed some. There was some residual antifreeze in the system though most drained when I changed impeller. I have limited cranking without coolant to limit exposure of impeller to damage. Muffler and exhaust pipes in great shape. Still very leery about starting dry and not flooding muffler and engine. Mixed confidence with staring and cooling engine on the hard Sunday. Have good plan thanks to forum. Will start dry until ignition then open water bucket access. May dial a friend for some hand holding.

    I have studied but not tackled. Transmission function, packing box nut and stern tube, cutlass bearing to propeller. Cutlass and propeller shaft tight, limited play.

    Bottom line. All evidence points to a healthy A4 that will run what remains of this season. Will another week or two she should be ready for a month or two on the water. I have learned much with much still to learn. Thankful for the distance I have covered with you this far. Stay well. Tim

    p.s.
    I have just now seemingly randomly discovered that SMosher a senior member of this group was the owner of Oasis based on posting history from 2006 to 2016. Amazing trove of history to read. I don't know how he figures into the oral history I have from the Marina owner.
    Last edited by TimBSmith; 09-04-2020, 10:30 PM. Reason: discovery
    Tim Smith
    Oasis
    Pearson 30
    1974, Number 572
    Boston, MA USA
  • JOHN COOKSON
    Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
    • Nov 2008
    • 3500

    #2
    Let us know how the start goes.
    One thing I might mention: Have the cooling water bucket as high or higher than the water pump. The pumps on the A4 sometimes have a problem with dead lift.
    Best of luck.

    ex TRUE GRIT

    Do you have the Moyer A4 manual?

    Comment

    • TimBSmith
      Afourian MVP
      • Aug 2020
      • 162

      #3
      Good afternoon. Happy LD weekend. Timely post John...Thank you..

      At the boat now searching site for max hose run distance from bucket to connecting T. Have empty Rubbermaid trash can below boat now. Will bring up to cockpit deck. Run hoses from there. Nervous about siphon effect above pump think I will use Y hose split diagram I have seen as extra safe vent. Taking my time. No Moyer Manual. Though it on my list too long. Good reminder. Using references here. Will post on startup. Diagram I found. Picture attached. Have all parts. Thankful. Stay well. Tim
      Attached Files
      Tim Smith
      Oasis
      Pearson 30
      1974, Number 572
      Boston, MA USA

      Comment

      • JOHN COOKSON
        Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
        • Nov 2008
        • 3500

        #4
        You will be amazed how much water the pump will move especially at high RPMs so keep the hose running in the bucket.
        Don't forget to prime the hose.

        ex TRUE GRIT

        Comment

        • TimBSmith
          Afourian MVP
          • Aug 2020
          • 162

          #5
          First Start Update

          Good Labor Day to you.

          Brief update on my startup experience.

          Some success through ultimately unable to run engine. Looks like fuel supply issue.

          I dialed a friend with great Atomic 4 knowledge to talk me through startup and trouble shooting.

          After confirming/modifying my cooling setup and safety preparation I set full choke and feather of throttle. Kept feed hose out of the water pending engine turning over to protect against muffler overflow/backflow.

          On first crank from remote starter engine turned over. Turned off cockpit key after brief 30 second run.

          Restarted and placed cooling feed hose in trash cash of water. Engine ran for maybe a couple of minutes. Good suction on cooling and evidence of exhaust and water discharge from stern discharge port. Engine soon stalled.

          Adjusted choke to half. Restart failed. Adjusted choke to full, little more throttle feather up, restart failed. Used pig rag strip inserted below open choke value to check for gas near carburetor throat. Found some gas. Plugs all clean. Reminded to pull coolant feed from bucket.

          Back to full choke. Cranked, would not turn over. Checked for gas, pig rag strips dry. Theory that initial startup was residual MMO combustion from MMO treatment.

          Cranked while spraying carburetor cleaner and engine turned over. Back to half choke and crank, nothing. Full choke and crank nothing. Pig rag strips below open choke value reaching toward throttle throat come back dry both times and every future crank.

          Theory engine is not getting fuel. Electronic fuel pump generating 3 to 5 psi. Pulled plugs all good, cylinder 3 plug some light residual carb cleaner? Checked all sparks with inline tester. All plugs getting spark.

          Next steps removing bowl drain bolt checking for fuel pooled or dry bowl. Will test fuel pump to confirm fuel flow at pump. May remove carburetor and do a good cleaning (According to PO SMosher post on this list in 2008 carb new from Moyer Aug 2008, so that hope is promising for its condition).

          Will search the list for fuel supply issues and carb trouble shooting. Watched Moyer video for start. Welcome thoughts. A lot of work to get to this point, encouraged that we did get short period of good sounding running engine with exhaust and water discharge. Now need to follow the evidence of trouble shooting where it leads and let go of some initial hope that we would be steady running today. Embracing the adventure to become more familiar with carb and fuel system, which was on my list anyhow.

          Thankful for this forum. Stay well, Tim
          Tim Smith
          Oasis
          Pearson 30
          1974, Number 572
          Boston, MA USA

          Comment

          • JOHN COOKSON
            Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
            • Nov 2008
            • 3500

            #6
            As I recall the boat was on the hard for couple of years. The left over fuel in the boat's tank is suspect.
            If you are trying to run off the boat's fuel tank I suggest you run off auxiliary tank directly to the fuel pump until you get the engine's part of the fuel system sorted out ie engine running correctly.

            ex TRUE GRIT

            Comment

            • TimBSmith
              Afourian MVP
              • Aug 2020
              • 162

              #7
              Old fuel reply

              Thank you for post John.

              I pumped all old fuel I could out of the gasoline tank recall it amounted to like 12 or 13 gallons. Filtered much of it while moving to EPA disposal storage containers. Found random bug parts, not much else. The color of the fuel tank fuel was much better than I expected (like fresh). I studied old gasoline and carb implications while contemplating the purchase of this and other A4 powered Pearsons. The marina owner also advised removing the old gasoline.

              However, when I removed fuel filter I found in the bowl and filter much more varnishy yellow gasoline that evidenced story of last engine run date over a year ago after being on the hard for 2 years. Replaced filter, bowl, bolt. The bolt and bowl story is epic. Pictures of 3 attempts here..solving for seepage, cross threading error, etc...Old and overtight original bowl and bolt..I learned a lot about thread sealant, tapered threading, and on...


              Studied best fuel choice and found range of data for lower 1:6? compression cylinders ultimately I refilled with 5 gallons regular unleaded and appropriate level of seafoam additive.

              My friend and engine coach is helping amazingly, and this forum is unbelievable. Found Mike in Maine on a Pearson group site and discovered a selection of posts from him on this forum as well. Thankful for all of the wisdom and range of expertise here. While I am angling to check carb bowl with drain bolt, think I am going to use the carb and fuel pump bleeding method where I can screw a fitting into the check bolt threads, use clear tubing and container, jump the fuel pump for 5 minutes or so a couple of times...see what I get. Maybe pull and look at the valve stem accessible from the drain hole. Before pulling carb and cleaning. I will be back a boat tomorrow hunting for bolt location, I have seen hex head bolt and looks like drain bolt will be found directly below that. Access is tough because of Facet pump. May have to unbolt while keeping pump grounded for flush. Wonder if Facet will run if sideways not vertically mounted?

              Thanks again. Stay well. Tim
              Tim Smith
              Oasis
              Pearson 30
              1974, Number 572
              Boston, MA USA

              Comment

              • Dave Neptune
                Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
                • Jan 2007
                • 5046

                #8
                Tim, the pump will work on it's side but NOT VERY WELL as it is designed to be up right.
                As you stated the fuel was bad and she sat for a while. The needle and seat could be sticky. Drain the carb with the bottom bowl plug replace the plug and try to start. If no start check the bowl again and keep track of the approximate amount of fuel drained. If full or the same try a spritz of "motor crack" (start fluid) and if she starts she has a fuel problem probably the carb now that you have "fresh fuel". If no start time to look to the ignition side for an intermittent spark.

                Also give the plugs a good look see for moisture. Any moisture equals a no start and/or run.

                Dave Neptune

                Comment

                • Sam
                  Afourian MVP
                  • Apr 2010
                  • 323

                  #9
                  Dave has good advise here. I would just add that if it were me I would spray a little carb cleaner up thru the bowl plug using a flexible tube on a pressurized can of cleaner. Not sure carb was drained prior to storage. Might help with "sticking" and save you time. Helped me a couple of times.

                  Comment

                  • nyvoyager
                    Senior Member
                    • Jun 2012
                    • 189

                    #10
                    Congratulations on your P30 and hope you enjoy it. I've owned mine for over 20 years and have not been able to justify upgrading to another boat. I find she does all I need and is a good sailing boat. If you have any specific questions, aside from the A4, I'd be happy to share what I know.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                    • TimBSmith
                      Afourian MVP
                      • Aug 2020
                      • 162

                      #11
                      Tuesday 9/8 Progress. Thank you Dave, Sam, others for posting..

                      Noted all guidance, was still at boat today for some of it, other read too late to help today. Making part of plan for tomorrow.

                      Located nut. Access from Pearson 30 port quarter berth with cushion removed left handed, sometimes blindly feeling my way. The bolt and washer were in place and tried many angles and tools of attack.



                      The tool that worked best is on top of the stack, completely random old wrench that came with a bunk bed we long ago donated. Perfect "L" bend and palm size. Thin cast. What a break.

                      Before access. The bolt had a little moisture on it, seemed only finger tight. No smell to it. Did not smell like carb cleaner or gas.

                      My ruminations...to keep the practical physics of all this straight in my head, skip to next procedure if so inclined.
                      The bowl did contain and release gasoline. I recall from discussions that this is indicative of something...I am going back to my notes/diagram. I have read and had it explained that the carbs job is to release fuel under different fluid/gas(air) pressure flux/gradients. I think the draining fuel (with ignition from both residual MMO and with carb cleaner introduced into throat and with persistence of no evidence of fuel in the throat or base of venturi tube behind choke valve during cranking) indicates that the main jet may not be responding to pressure changes and is not feeding discharge nozzle or other jets.

                      The float chamber is where all this liquid fuel pools waiting to be atomized into the venturi tube and the ports and jets that are supposed to work together are not getting(as a starting point) fed by this main jet. We know combustion will happen in my engine in the presence of fuel. We have good spark from inline spark test and evidence of combustion pressure and wet exhaust.

                      Fuels supply system test.

                      I checked tank, feed, vent. Smelled strong odor of gas at vent. No evidence of gas leakage from feed line to main shutoff valve. From valve to filter. From filter to pump. Pump to carb. Like my motor coach Mike from Maine, I do not like all the tubes supporting the pressure meter for the electric fuel pump. So many places for a leak to develop. Still pump pressure reads 3 to 5 psi reliably.

                      Fuel Pump Test and Flush

                      I fashioned a small funnel to some plastic piping at the base of the passage plug. This is what it looks like (best effort at photo). Not what I envisioned, laid out plenty of pig mat.


                      Ran the blower, opened all cockpit lockers. Attached my oil pressure fail safe jumper clips first, then powered up the cockpit and cabin ignition switch. Allowed pump to run for 5 minutes. The tubing was not useful as the pumped fuel gradually trickled out of the main passage plug outlet. Took the first minute or so to start running. It did not make it to the container. Was soaked up by pig rags. I felt the cold gasoline flow coming from the passage. Very little pressure though definite flow. Pump stayed close to 5 psi. Did not measure volume. Noted that suggestion.

                      Turned off both ignition keys cockpit first. Undid jumper. Replaced plug bolt again with some effort. Setup for a couple of dry cranks just in case the main jet was cleaned with flush. Engine did not start. Still no evidence of fuel in throat using pig rag strips deep underneath choke valve. Did not remove passage bolt to check chamber pooling fuel. Checked #1 and #4 plugs. Both dry. Ran out of time.

                      Tomorrow I will check passage for fuel, drain (expected). Spray carb cleaner into main jet and set up to dry crank a couple of times. Probably confirming spark along the way. Even if startup, may pull carb either way and give good cleaning with advice here and from my motor coach.

                      Open to possibility of further ignition testing (intermittent spark, etc.) will be more confident of those next tests as needed once I know the engine is getting fuel. Based on condition of carb will consider next steps from cleaning, rebuilding(though still very new(2008 MMI replacement new), replacing, etc. I have read that carb cleaning should become an annual maintenance point, and I have read that some skippers run their engines out of gas at each shutdown. I have read that it all starts with fuel quality getting to carb. (Knowing that long periods of disuse without proper preparation present other carb fouling risks). Whatever next steps, will make sure to have good plan for maintenance and service. I like to think this carb will clean up well. That's the first tier plan, however tomorrow goes.

                      Until next...

                      Grateful for all posts and support. Stay well. Tim
                      Tim Smith
                      Oasis
                      Pearson 30
                      1974, Number 572
                      Boston, MA USA

                      Comment

                      • JOHN COOKSON
                        Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 3500

                        #12
                        DID YOU CLEAN THE TANK?

                        Originally posted by TimBSmith View Post
                        I pumped all old fuel I could out of the gasoline tank recall it amounted to like 12 or 13 gallons. Filtered much of it while moving to EPA disposal storage containers. Found random bug parts, not much else. The color of the fuel tank fuel was much better than I expected (like fresh). I studied old gasoline and carb implications while contemplating the purchase of this and other A4 powered Pearsons. The marina owner also advised removing the old gasoline
                        Remember ethanol has a detergent effect in tanks. Removing the old fuel (with bug parts!!) is a good first step.
                        If you take on five gallons clean fuel into a dirty tank you will have five gallons of dirty fuel.
                        If the tank is dirty you are setting yourself for serial carburetor rebuilds. Don't depend on filters to clean up dirty fuel.
                        I've been down the serial carburetor rebuild road. It ain't no fun. I was ordering carburetor rebuild "kits" two at a time until I figured out what the problem was.* No forum back in those days......

                        ex TRUE GRIT

                        *I did get good at rebuilding the carburetor though!

                        Comment

                        • TimBSmith
                          Afourian MVP
                          • Aug 2020
                          • 162

                          #13
                          Fuel tank cleaning..carb removal....and other run-time fuel system diagnostics

                          Thank you Dave for post..

                          Heading to the boat in a few....

                          Very interested to see how tests today go and newer late model carb removal process. Welcome any guidance on important marking or documentation to do while removing carb that may help with re-install or calibration. May not be an issue...I will photo and video and markup connections as I go. Has been explained and looks pretty manageable and lower risk.

                          Tank cleaning.

                          I am following this up. I have read about and like the idea of a tank cleanout rather than relying primarily on the external re-filtering and refilling approach. Though I may refilter with a separate filter and pump to see what comes out. See other ways this may be useful capability to have. Ultimately if I can have a cleaning done without removing the tank that is my preference. Whether I do it or a service does it. It seems like a secondary tank fuel emptying and filtering capability could be useful. Also, for run-time diagnostics seen great and useful notes on having vacuum gauge in front of in-line fuel filter and the alarm sensor panel from Moyer both of which I am adding to my wish list. List of other preventive in-line gauges or fuel testing procedures are especially proven and useful?. Wow...fuel related discussions are manifest on in this forum...

                          Grateful.

                          Stay well. Tim
                          Tim Smith
                          Oasis
                          Pearson 30
                          1974, Number 572
                          Boston, MA USA

                          Comment

                          • TimBSmith
                            Afourian MVP
                            • Aug 2020
                            • 162

                            #14
                            Reference point for fuel tank cleaning...



                            Collecting some data on onboard fuel tank cleaning. While this firm is in Baltimore out of my geography(Boston). Here is what the rep quoted me for local service.

                            $300 for service vehicle dispatched to boat
                            $2 per gallon of gasoline removed from the tank
                            $90 for technician to agitate tank during pump out.

                            Their approach for gasoline tanks is to agitate and pump out. No solvents. No polishing.

                            That is all....except for a parting thought to this post...making a couple of other calls this week. If you are in Boston area and have used a service please share...also checking at Marina on services there and referrals... Has anyone here written about Marina owner relations, so many do it yourselfers on the forum yet I wonder about how to keep the marina ecosystem healthy...read an article about this in practical sailor recently....provoked thoughts about considering how I spend my money for marina supported contractors and keeping that system healthy while being all about right to repair and DIY. Stay well. Tim
                            Tim Smith
                            Oasis
                            Pearson 30
                            1974, Number 572
                            Boston, MA USA

                            Comment

                            • nyvoyager
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2012
                              • 189

                              #15
                              After 3 years of frustrating fuel problems on my P30 - I grabbed a right angle grinder and cut the wood cradle out. Took the monel fuel tank to a radiator place to be cleaned.
                              Replaced fuel lines, vent lines, fuel pump, filters
                              All good. That was 20 years ago.
                              FWIW: The fuel line was plugged solid

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