Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Troubleshooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 64.40.61.1
Old 02-15-2006, 12:48 PM
redwitch redwitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Broken Valve Spring

I was getting water in my oil last June, The motor ran bad, bad noise, water in oil. traced to broken valve springs on #4, I replaced all the valve springs, a few valves, new head gasket, ran perfect untill now, last weekend the motor sounded bad, running on 3 cylinders. I checked tune parts good, I removed the valve cover plate and found #4 exhust spring broken again and #2 cylinder spring damaged, I dont know what can cause my valve springs to break, I warm the motor up and do not over rev it. Im going to replace all the valve springs again. I just dont know what the cause, any Ideas, Thanks Ed
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 38.118.52.41
Old 02-15-2006, 04:11 PM
Don Moyer's Avatar
Don Moyer Don Moyer is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,811
Thanks: 0
Thanked 183 Times in 124 Posts
Ed,

The only experience we have ever had with valve springs breaking has been that which resulted from water damage to the springs (slight rustiness) and/or water damage to the valve stems and guides which caused the valves to stick a bit. The combination of those two situations would cause the springs to break in multiple places along the length of the spring.

I'm not sure what springs you've been using, but the OEM springs from the 1980's and 1990's were particularly bad in this regard. We began using springs from another manufacturer around 2000, which helped considerably, but we still had a few reported failures in the aftermath of water intrusion episodes that resulted in sea water backing into the combustion chambers. About a year ago, we began using stainless valve springs and to this point have no reported failures.

Regards,

Don Moyer
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 64.40.62.141
Old 02-15-2006, 05:23 PM
redwitch redwitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
thanks Don, I installed your valve springs last July, I suspect stainless (shiny) I may have a prolbem with my exhust. I replaced made a new exhust from the manifold out, I may not may not have made it tall enough??? I did use the old one for a template, but as I said I may not have made it tall enough I dont want to replace the valve springs every 9 months. thanks Ed
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 38.118.52.41
Old 02-16-2006, 07:29 AM
Don Moyer's Avatar
Don Moyer Don Moyer is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,811
Thanks: 0
Thanked 183 Times in 124 Posts
Ed,

We don't want you to be replacing your valve springs every 9 months either. Would you please send all of your old springs (especially the broken ones) to our Moyer Marine Warehouse, 242 N. Spring Street, Middletown PA 17057? Yours may be the first reported failure that we've had, and I'm very anxious to have the springs analyzed to determine all we can about their failure mode.


Thanks,

Don
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 64.40.60.5
Old 02-16-2006, 03:47 PM
redwitch redwitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
no prolbem I will send the springs next week. I plan to have them out saturday. Thanks Ed
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 73.182.158.173
Old 09-18-2020, 02:55 PM
dplidr@gmail.com dplidr@gmail.com is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Beverly MA
Posts: 24
Thanks: 12
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Valve springs - Stainless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Moyer View Post
Ed,

The only experience we have ever had with valve springs breaking has been that which resulted from water damage to the springs (slight rustiness) and/or water damage to the valve stems and guides which caused the valves to stick a bit. The combination of those two situations would cause the springs to break in multiple places along the length of the spring.

I'm not sure what springs you've been using, but the OEM springs from the 1980's and 1990's were particularly bad in this regard. We began using springs from another manufacturer around 2000, which helped considerably, but we still had a few reported failures in the aftermath of water intrusion episodes that resulted in sea water backing into the combustion chambers. About a year ago, we began using stainless valve springs and to this point have no reported failures.

Regards,

Don Moyer

Hi Don,
I just received the new springs for my rebuild and I've noticed that the pencil magnet I have is attracted to these new springs (not as strongly as the old ones, but clearly magnetic). Is that what you'd expect?



thanks,
-DaveL
Attached Images
 

Last edited by dplidr@gmail.com; 09-18-2020 at 03:12 PM. Reason: added pic
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 98.117.4.37
Old 09-18-2020, 06:19 PM
Don Moyer's Avatar
Don Moyer Don Moyer is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,811
Thanks: 0
Thanked 183 Times in 124 Posts
Valve spring material

Dave,

We questioned the manufacturer many years ago on this point, and they told us that it's normal for their stainless valve springs to have a bit of magnetic attraction. In all the years we've been using these springs (25+ years), I don't recall ever seeing one of their springs fail from rust. Don
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Don Moyer For This Useful Post:
dplidr@gmail.com (09-18-2020)
  #8   IP: 47.54.60.150
Old 09-18-2020, 07:23 PM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
FWIW

I worked on a troublesome engine a few times and the culprit was he changed the exhaust layout. The right conditions would allow water back into the top end resulting in sticking valves, broken spring and a broken valve at one point. Fixed the engine (twice), and figured water had to be causing it...I looked at the riser and it seemed low but he said he'd replaced it the year before exactly as it was and had run for years. On my advice he put in a higher riser up from the exhaust manifold and the engine has been fine since. Something to ponder and check out.
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.

Last edited by Mo; 09-18-2020 at 07:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 09-18-2020, 07:44 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Magnetic properties of stainless steel vary by the grade (typical for marine purposes are 304, 316 and 18-8).
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 73.182.158.173
Old 09-18-2020, 11:03 PM
dplidr@gmail.com dplidr@gmail.com is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Beverly MA
Posts: 24
Thanks: 12
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thank you Don for your very quick response. Reassuring to know you don't find that slight magnetism indicates bad spring material.

Appears from reading that the cold forming and other methods can impart magnetic properties and in some cases a bit more ferrite content can help avoid cracking.

A couple links for those who want to know more about the different magnetic properties of different SS grades and different SS manufacturing.

https://www.kimballphysics.com/magne...ainless-steels
https://clevelandmixer.com/why-are-s...ings-magnetic/
https://www.greenwoodmagnetics.com/r...ainless-steel/

Thanks again,
-DaveL
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Checklist for a troublefree spring startup Don Moyer General Interest 13 05-18-2022 07:59 AM
Reverse Retaining Spring Albert Solbes Reversing Gear 0 12-21-2005 12:20 PM
Broken valve stem stuck in the valve guide Unregistered General Maintenance 1 11-19-2005 08:26 AM
Suspect broken intake valve spring Scott Lynds Troubleshooting 1 08-20-2005 01:46 PM
PCV valve (Indigo) question Marty Levenson Aftermarket Kits and Accessories 1 02-18-2005 10:33 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved