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  #1   IP: 24.170.40.227
Old 03-08-2006, 09:05 AM
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reverse gear adjustments

Don, first thank you for all your invaluable help. Apart from other little mysterious problems, my main one today is this. I was running the boat on its maiden voyage after a complete overhaul. Everything was fine, I was waving at the neighbors for about 30-40 minutes. then the engine stalled and stopped. I nervously shifted to neutral and the engine started right up, I waited a little bit and when I shifted forward slowly at first nothing happened, it was calm day and I noticed I was not even moving water, when I fully engaged forward the engined stalled and died. I restarted and tried reverse, I had tried to adjust the gears before I left the dock because reverse was not fully engaging, but the shaft was turning rather freely, I could see this through the cabin hatch. Reverse was working but very slowly, I managed to get to the bulkhead, then got a tow back to the slip. At first I thought I had fouled the prop, and although I have not braved the cold water, I dont think the prop is fouled, since the shaft turns easily when I feather the shifter, it only siezes when fully engaged. Most of my adjustment was turning the nut towards the stern ,(counter clockwise while standing on the distributer side) I never was able to get the reverse gear to fully engage from the cockpit, to fully engage I actually have to go below and nudge it into position, and it will stay there. I read in your manuals and threads that this should be an adjustment of 1 or 2 nut positions, I know I did maybe 4-5. At first I thought it was a cutlass bearing or a fouled prop so I really have not messed with adjusting the reverse gear again, but reading some of the post somebody mentioned a Bearing. What do you think?

Gilbert Landin
cat 30
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  #2   IP: 38.118.52.41
Old 03-08-2006, 04:09 PM
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Gilbert,

Assuming that your reversing gear shifted normally from forward to reverse during the first part of your maiden voyage (the part when you were waving to your friends), I would separate the output coupling from the prop shaft coupling to determine whether or not the problem is in the reversing gear or the prop shaft. If the engine runs fine with the prop shaft disconnected (in both forward and reverse), the problem is most likely somewhere in the prop shaft assembly.

Don
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  #3   IP: 24.170.40.227
Old 03-08-2006, 10:08 PM
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Don, thats what I like about you, its the easy things you remind us of. I kept thinking of all the hard things and making it harder for myself. I will try that tomorrow.

gilbert
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Old 03-10-2006, 08:34 AM
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shifter Adjustment

I disconnected the prop shaft from the motor and the linkage cable to the shifter. I found that with the cable attached the lever was not reaching the full extreme engagement point (the detente?) there is definite snap when I reach this point, and it is a little hard to disengage. I actually blew my shifter cable like OCSAILS in his post, trying to disengage. The good news is that the engine still bogs or siezes before I reach the detent to the point of totally stopping. I did not do any forward gear asjustments before only reverse gear. I also dont know how it worked previously, since I am a new owner. Do you think the adjustment collar is to tight, or did I medd domething up.

gilbert
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  #5   IP: 38.118.52.41
Old 03-10-2006, 12:07 PM
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Gilbert,

There are two items in your report that need to be corrected:

1) ---with the cable attached, the lever was not reaching the full extreme engagement point-----.

While I don't believe this condition has anything to do with your engine seizing, you will need to adjust the operating zone of your shifting cable so that it will be able to move the shifting lever all the way to the forward detent. Do not go too far with the adjustment in this direction or you could run out of travel in the rearward direction and you won't be able to reach reverse.

2) ----- the engine still bogs or seizes before I reach the (forward) detent to the point of totally stopping. I did not do any forward gear adjustments before only reverse gear.

I think it's time to review your whole adjusting procedure. The forward adjustment appears to be needlessly tight (probably by one notch on the adjusting collar), and the reverse adjustment could be so tight that it is not releasing fully by the time you are trying to engage forward.

Here is the entire adjusting procedure:

FORWARD MODE ADJUSTING PROCEDURE

1) Place the cockpit shifting lever in neutral.

2) Recheck to be sure the reversing gear is in neutral by turning the prop shaft. The neutral position is at the point where the prop shaft turns most freely.

NOTE: If the forward clutch assembly is not in a good neutral position prior to adjustment, it will be very difficult to rotate the staked adjusting collar in step 6.

3) Remove the access plate on top of the reversing gear assembly.

4) Rotate the gear case cluster until the retaining pin of the adjusting collar is facing upward.

5) Loosen the retaining pin until the staked collar can be turned on its threads. It is not necessary to completely remove the retaining pin from its threads to turn the adjusting collar.

6) Turning the adjusting collar clockwise (as you would be facing the engine from the rear) will tighten the clutch disks when in forward. As a frame of reference, one notch on the adjusting collar makes a large difference and is usually sufficient to prevent slippage.

7) Retighten the retaining pin.

CAUTION: It is very important that the end of the retaining pin extends into one of the notches on the adjusting collar before final tightening. If the end of the pin presses on the collar itself (between notches), or if the pin is simply over-tightened, it is extremely easy to break the cast iron pressure plate.

8) Place the cockpit lever in and out of the forward detent several times to insure a proper "feel". A solid detent should be felt while going in and out of forward, but the adjustment should not be so tight as to cause any concern that the ship's cable and levers may be overstressed.

9) If, after readjusting the forward clutch assembly, the neutral position of the shifting lever in the cockpit is in an awkward location, you can adjust the cable shackle at the engine, or cockpit shifting lever, until the cockpit lever is in a more natural neutral location.

REVERSE MODE ADJUSTING PROCEDURE

1) When the forward mode adjustment is correct, recheck the reverse mode for proper adjustment. There should be a well defined neutral range when coming out of the forward detent, and reverse mode should be felt comfortably before the shifting lever in the cockpit reaches the limits of its rearward travel.

NOTE: There is no "detent" in the reverse mode.

2) If the shifting lever in the cockpit reaches the limits of its travel before reverse mode is securely established, turn the 3/4" hex-headed nut of the reversing brake band clockwise.

3) If the reverse mode is reached too soon, and/or the neutral zone is so small that it is difficult to find a spot where the prop is not turning (one way or the other), turn the adjusting nut counter-clockwise.

NOTE: It is not necessary to remove the retaining spring in order to turn the nut on the reversing band adjusting bolt.

FOR PEDESTAL-MOUNTED SHIFTING LEVERS:

By way of background, pedestal-mounted shifting systems typically have somewhat less cable travel than those which are mounted on the side of the cockpit. This makes them very prone to having problems associated with being able to reach both forward and reverse and still have a reasonable neutral zone.

It's very important that the cable assembly is adjusted so that you're able to engage the forward detent near the end of the travel in the forward direction. This adjustment is necessary so that you will have sufficient travel in the rearward direction to accommodate reverse and still have a reasonable neutral zone between forward and reverse.

In the past, we have seen several pedestal-mounted systems where the range of cable travel had shifted so far in the forward direction that there was barely sufficient travel remaining to reach the forward detent before encountering stops within the cable system. In this configuration, whenever the forward adjusting collar is set to provide a "stiffer" adjustment, the additional force required to get the reversing gear into the forward detent results in the cable system reaching the limits of its travel before the detent is reached.

Don
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:48 PM
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reverse gear adjustment

Thanks Don, It was hard to turn the adjusting collar and I was careful since the cast iron is easy to break, but I finally was able to turn the collar one notch. This made enought difference, so now I can fully engage the forward gear without the motor bogging down. I still have to rev up the motor a little to keep it going, but it is much better.

Thanks
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  #7   IP: 68.4.161.92
Old 10-16-2013, 12:48 PM
randoo randoo is offline
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forward gear slipping

My tranny on my A4/Cat30 1978 "slips" as if not detented. I have a new cable and thought I had it set up properly. Removed the transmission cover and did the adjustments described in Don's email, above.

Question...does any one have a photo the was taken of the tranny, cover off and in forward ttaht show the proper alignment and location of parts when properly adjusted?
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  #8   IP: 71.118.13.238
Old 10-16-2013, 01:58 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Thumbs up Detent 101?

randoo, first a question, do you feel the detent when you shift? It should be a bit of a click going into gear and a "harder" pull to come out of the detent.

If you are looking at the shifting cone (looks like a bell) there is a 3 pronged yoke that rides on it. As you shift into forward the prongs spread out against the cone and finally lock into the groove on the large end of the bell~the proverbial detent. The spreading of the prongs increases the leverage against the clutches to engage forward.

Note it is normal for it to require more pressure on the shifter to dis-engage than to engage forward. There is no detent in reverse, you must supply the leverage on the shifter while backing to maintain good engagement!

Jerry or someone may have a pic, however I do suggest the MMI manual, especially if you plan to save big time and maintain the lil beastie yourself.

Dave Neptune
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  #9   IP: 68.4.161.92
Old 10-16-2013, 02:42 PM
randoo randoo is offline
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Thx, I am heading to the beast right now and will inspect.

Seriously curious, in step 5 in Don's adjustment procedure " Loosen the retaining pin until the staked collar can be turned on its threads. It is not necessary to completely remove the retaining pin from its threads to turn the adjusting collar", should I be able to turn the collar by hand after backing out the retainer pin and in a good neutral? As i recall, I could NOT turn the collar by hand.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:01 PM
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randoo..I don't know much about the reversing gear assembly, but I would see how the shifting mechanism works without the cable in place and get that adjusted properly...then re-introduce the cable into the assembly and adjust the cable to reproduce the no cable shifting habits.

ON a C-30, you should be able to access the shifting arm on the motor well enough to move it with a big screwdriver thru the hole, or I even recall a pair of vice grips clamped on one before.
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  #11   IP: 68.4.161.92
Old 10-16-2013, 04:28 PM
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thx for the interest...new cable and it is free so I am looking toward the tranny or something in my locker that I moved an is creating an interference?????
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  #12   IP: 68.4.161.92
Old 10-17-2013, 01:09 PM
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Sometimes the simplest things are overlooked, we start over-thinking, create a bigger problem (scratch till it bleeds?)....my problem was that the (loss of words..) strong point where the install is attached to mounting hardware to restrain the cable and allow the inside of the cable to slide relative to the external cover....had come loose. duh
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:31 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by randoo View Post
Sometimes the simplest things are overlooked, we start over-thinking, create a bigger problem (scratch till it bleeds?)....my problem was that the (loss of words..) strong point where the install is attached to mounting hardware to restrain the cable and allow the inside of the cable to slide relative to the external cover....had come loose. duh
You are not the first to experience that and you won't be the last...good that all is working.
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