Old vs Late Cooling System

[ButchPetty]

I just finished reading this http://www.moyermarine.com//forums/s...ead.php?t=3901

Can or would someone explain to me why I would want to change my early Doyle System to a Late Model System?
To be quite frank, the late model system sounds like a pain in the butt also. My Doyle is working but I was under the impression that the late model system would be better and now I don't know why I was thing that.
Didn't the factory do sea trials on these motors before they marketed them? With all the crap a person has to go thru installing "by-passes" for this or that reason.......I just don't get it !!!!

[hanleyclifford]

Butch - The big problem with the late thermostat is not usually the thermostat but rather the housing which corrodes and won't permit shut off of the bypass. The fix is put in the bypass shut off valve which constructively defeats the thermostat. You simply regulate temp with the valve. I have an early head on a late block and I use the Dole thermostat and a shut off valve; the difference is that everything is external. If you decide to go the late head and thermostat route it is a good idea to get a new bronze housing from Moyer Marine. Hanley

[ButchPetty]

For me Hanley the problem is why all the "by pass" systems and valves for this and valves for that crapola to begin with. Why is there not a system for sea water cooling that "simply" works? One that doesn't have to have a sentry standing guard over the beast as she roars through the jungle? Doesn't have to have gate keepers opening doors for the troops to come cool the queen?
Henry Ford had a system that has worked for what.......100 years?!?! And this Atomic Four is far more simple and enduring than anything Ford even dreamed of. So it just baffles me that the cooling system is so complicated and why?
Actually I am kinda of PeeD off about the whole dilemma right now. I spent all day, yes all day getting the late mode head off the new parts motor without destroying it. The head, the housing in it, the manifold, bypass fitting and cover all look great. Only it didn't have a thermostat. So I look in the store at the new thermostat and almost choke on my cigarette at the price. Then there is the weird spacer that I need. Then there are the check valves and by pass lines that I need. And the hits just keep on coming.
And to top it all off I had actually got my early model cooling system to where it worked, and worked well. The temp got to 150 (appx) quick, it stayed there without almost any fluctuation and there are no ball valves or spring valves........no sentries at the gate.
So with all the new parts in hand I find myself asking why the heck switch to another system and start all over with new head aches? What is the possible benefits? And to tell you the truth.......I'm not seeing any.

[ButchPetty]

Let me expound on the "Henry Ford" thing before the can of worms thing happens........Yes, I know we are talking about sea water and yes, I know we are talking about rust. So when I ask all the aforementioned questions I am talking about a system that is clean, no clogs, and good flow. And with all those in place why all the other JUNK in the trunk?!?!?!

[hanleyclifford]

Butch - I think you have reasoned your way to the solution that will work for you. Keep the Dole thermostat. Use your old head and thermostat. Keep the new stuff for trading fodder. After all, the only thing you really needed was a block.

[Kelly]

Butch,

If I understand your basic question, allow me to quote Don Moyer on the subject. This comment was a response to my original cooling configuration confusion (please excuse the alliteration). My late model FWC A4 was plumbed with BOTH the late model thermostat and the older Dole thermostat. I was looking for help in order to choose the best thermostat for my needs:

I think you're on the right track to consider using the Dole part of your system as SanJuan28 suggests, particularly since you have a fresh water cooled system. Late model thermostats operate more or less in a full open or full closed configuration, while Dole thermostats actually vary the flow more like a control valve for more consistent temperature control. It's true that this somewhat more sensitive articulating mechanism of the Dole thermostat requires more attention in a raw water environment, but the cleaner coolant of fresh water systems is very friendly to Dole thermostats.


It's interesting to note that Universal themselves apparently had a certain affection for the Dole system, since they went back to it on their very first generation of diesel engines - the two cylinder 5411. Unfortunately, they produced this engine only in a raw water configuration and many of the Dole thermostats didn't receive sufficient service to keep them operating in this more hostile environment.

Hope this helps.

You can see the whole discussion here.

[ButchPetty]

Thanks Kelly.
I had to smile a little bit when I was reading your post. After I sat here and dug through this forum yesterday for hours I came to the same conclusion. There is no way I'm going to compound my headaches at this point. I will put the early model set up back on my engine.
One thing I do plan on doing is some investigation on thermostats. It will probably be an exercise in futility but I would like to get away from the Doyle if possible. Because just as Westerbeke suggests, that little bitty thermostat does take a beating from ocean water. You almost need to have a Teflon gasket on the housing so you can access the little bugger every month or so and clean it.

[ButchPetty]

Because just as Westerbeke suggests, ........

Whoops. Sorry Don.

As Don suggests.

[CapeCodPiper]

With a FWC system attached, old system are pretty robust

I have a Type 1 A-4 with the big old Dole housing on top on the exhaust manifold. It's a very simply system. If you were operating your A-4 on the Oshkosh river in December, you would want the engine to be able to warm up a bit before it got the full frigid water coursing through it. But if you have a FWC system attached, the engine will ONLY see coolant. With the Dole system when the engine is cold the coolant will circulate back through the engine rather than going through the heat exchanger. Of course if the raw water in the heat exchanger is 60 degree summer water, having the coolant be "cooled" is really no big deal.

The old dole systems are very simple, but generally effective. I don't know why one would really want to change over to a new engine with a newer cooling design only to reduce a bit the carbonizing of the engine when it is cold especially if there is not much carbonizing going on anyways, You are probably better off spending the money on a better oil filtration system to get more of the carbon out of the engine AFTER it has fluffed up a little. Or just run your engine for your 50 hours to get out the harbor, change the oil yearly, and mix up a marguerita to help you forget what you could be worrying about.